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Call me a skeptic but is Mike Blais selling out veterans?

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czerv
pinger
bigrex
Dannypaj
johnny211
RCNRetired
prawnstar
Rags
Teentitan
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Post by Guest Mon 12 Sep 2016, 06:44

Again, I appreciate the hard work and dedication by all advocating, by all, I mean all, even those who see things differently. We must not allow Veterans and Veterans groups to pull away from unity simply because of ones belief. However I must say that there seems to be an Illusion among some that these so called committee recommendations is one step further towards proactive change. What is missing here in reality is the fact that a recommendation is just that, a recommendation. You can make all the recommendations you want, good OR bad, you can feel good about what it is your recommending, you can share and praise what it is your recommending, you can speak against what others are recommending OR standing by, but in reality a recommendation good OR bad if not accepted OR acted upon, is nothing more than just a positive view by those making the recommendation OR recommendations. It changes nothing, I mean absolutely nothing. What it does do is give the government PR in a way that shows everyone that they, the government are listening to Veterans. It does not matter to the government that those recommendations are not being looked at further, what matters is that they are listening to what is being recommended regardless of the lack of actions taken to further the recommendations. Regarding Mike, I think he has finally seen the light and understands that the government is using Veterans as PR with absolutely no intention of acting on anything that comes from Veterans. Therefore he has changed his tactics taken his advocating to public protest. He understands that the bureaucrats are the ones running the show, and the MVA is acting on what the bureaucrats are saying, not any Veteran OR veterans group. I think it's just a matter of time before others understands this and follows the same route as Mike in changing tactics. JMO

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Post by Dannypaj Mon 12 Sep 2016, 06:01

Brian Mc. I will reserve judgement till I see what's tabled in October .

Till we see the results, there's only 11 people alive that know what is tabled. I say tabled on purpose because all that the advisory group can tell any of us is the nature of their collective advice. Like advice in the past, it can be implemented or shelved.

I hate the secrecy too but I get it. I look back to the last budget. Things were tabled as law in black and white . And yet with a vet community of 700,000 , by the end of the week there were many different versions of what was happening . And that's with actual policy.

If these 11 dudes were to table every suggestion that's come forward in six months of meetings and throw them all on the Internet , we would have a thousand versions of "I heard what's happening is" by lunch on Monday.

I have care and respect for the person with the dissenting opinion , and care and respect for those with the supporting opinion so before we start declaring that we know what's in there, let's wait till its tabled.

Troops, we are in this for the long haul . Veterans benefits have been ignored and dismissed for decades . It will take decades to right the ship. And if you've tried and moved the ball a single yard towards to the touchdown line, I respect both you and your efforts .

On another note Some of us are trying to get a veterans census going. But I'm sure you can imagine that right now, there's no way to get 700,000 to vote in one guy and us all agree that they represent each of us perfectly. Consultation is great , but consultation to death can occur too. Eventually to get anything done, just like our time in the military, there needs to be a departure from info gathering the main body to putting some key minds forward and trying to move policy. The cds will fly to Afghanistan to meet the 3000 troops , but by the time he is back in Ottawa and says "gentlemen , orders" there's no more than 10 dudes at the table.

So I'll end here. Let's wait to see what they've come up with. And regardless of what's tabled, let's tear apart the ideas instead of the integrity of the people. We have to improve the level of discourse on the vets file in this country.


Extracted from Facebook "Veterans Guerilla Radio....There is also a string of comments that follow, including E. O'toole.
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Post by Dannypaj Mon 12 Sep 2016, 05:29

WE ARE ALL ON BOARD<>WAIT AND SEE Ladies and Gentlemen, veterans deserve nothing but the best care Canada can offer.  

Extracted from Facebook..........

Martin J Mc. shared Aaron B.'s post.
8 hrs
..
Another side of the story or at least part of it. The rest veiled in secrecy

Aaron B. to VETERAN GUERRILLA RADIO
9 hrs


Please Share
Mark C.
THE PENSION UPDATE

I recently attended the latest gathering of the Minister of Veterans' Affairs {MVA) Policy Committee in Ottawa on 31 Aug 16. Significant progress was made in terms of further refining/defining the Committee's recommended Financial Compensation model for the Minister's decision and subsequent efforts within Cabinet and Treasury Board. All done with a view towards eliminating the current financial gap that exists between recipients of the former Pension Act (PA) versus those disenfranchised under the New Veterans Charter (NVC}. We are confident that with further adjustment to offsets/clawbacks, the propsed financial compensation model will be more generous than any previous package in terms of net income. We are proposing a compensation model that is in everyone's best interests and that is fair/equitable to all.

Unfortunately, it has now become abundantly clear that one dissenting member of the MVAC's Policy Committee is dead set against the otherwise unanimously recommended proposals of the majority. This individual is currently ignoring the committee's non-disclosure agreement to cast single-sided aspersions against the work of the committee and even the motivations of is volunteer members. This is all extremely distastefull and unfortunate, but I for one will not stand for a rogue individual compromising the incredibly important work of the all-volunteer Policy Committee simply because he self-styles himself as some sort of "singular saviour of the veteran cause". Ego aside, there is qute frankly little apparent substance in this individual's ceaseless insistence upon a different path. "Equality in National Recognition of Sacrifice" is the buzz-phrase he tosses around with no real meaning and no coherent basis in achievable reality - at least not as proposed by the dissenter. However, this is simply my equally personal view, and you are therefore free to side however you see fit.

I believe that the Policy Committee is recommending a reasonable, affordable and achievable solution to the problem of multiple, modern-day veteran compensation schemes within Canada. You will all be able to judge for yourselves when the recommendations and proposals of the Policy Committee are briefed to the next Stakeholder's Summit on 5/6 October 2016. Until then, I suggest that we all turn down the rhetoric and cease casting personal aspersions based on what amounts to simple disagreement between a Committee of 10 Veteran advisors and one dissenting member.

No matter their other interests or affiliations/representations, all of the Policy Committee members are CAF veterans volunteering their time (and their family time) for the best interests of the Canadian Veteran community. As such, all members of the Policy Advisory Committee are equally deserving of respect and "air time". It is NOT a venue for ego-challenged members to quantify the comparative value of their inuries based on severity and cirucumstance. "Dick-measuring" in this instance is both unecessary and ultimately ill-advised. The only people it pleases as those who would see fit to deny Canada's veterans their due. This, among other reasons, is why the in-fighting must cease. It simply feeds those who would do us harm.

FWIW, I stand by the recommendations that I and my fellow veterans on the Policy Advisory Committee have developed. We honestly believe that our recommended meaures represent a fair and achievable way ahead for both the injured veteran and the taxpayer.. This is not to say that our recommendations will be adopted in whole or part, as the government has other imperatives to consider at the same time. All we can do is put the best possible recommendations forward to our elected officials for their consideration and action.


Last edited by Dannypaj on Mon 12 Sep 2016, 06:03; edited 1 time in total
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Post by RCNRetired Fri 03 Apr 2015, 16:34

Thanks and I could not agree more, what we were is not the point, what we now are is.

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Post by Guest Fri 03 Apr 2015, 12:13

On the spot there teen

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Post by Teentitan Fri 03 Apr 2015, 11:09

RCN very true...rank, injury, how and where the injury occured means nothing. All it did was get us all that final promotion.

That promotion being Mr., Mrs., Miss, Ms!

I always respect opinions on CSAT and Rags has brought a lot of opinions to this thread which is both educational and respectful. Rags I don't give a fiddlers fadoo what rank you were in the military. I've stood toe to toe with former Generals and Privates. Rank means nothing to me because that was then. This is now...we are all vets and being a vet in my books means you get my utmost respect!

Keep the reading material coming people. With all the changes to the NVC happening lately this is our greatest weapon...civility...respect for each other...pride in who we are.
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Post by Guest Fri 03 Apr 2015, 09:23

I do not think any body tried to batter rags here, this place is or should be a great place to give our opinions, motivations and yes somes of our expériences. This should be a discution and not a fight!!!!! I know rags, and that for a log time. He was one hell of a soldier and did more than most of us. But in the mater of vets being categorised I do not agree. that is MY point of vieuw and that is it. Have a great day rags,

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Post by Guest Fri 03 Apr 2015, 09:00

Rcn  did you ever see a seriously injured soldier stand on parade for two hours every day while the regiment placticed drill. staples still in their back, legs etc. ever see them pass out from the pain, tears run down their cheeks. ever see them shovel officers driveways all day in the same condition,move funiture etc etc and within 6 months back in for more surgery again and again and end up disabled. I have seen it to many times and lived it myself just the life of an ssf artillery soldier, so when an officier or senior nco in my own trade tells me i dont deserve va when it was the units sop that helped put many of us in this position im not going to sit back and listen to self entitlement. So rags if you want less vets on va go to Ottawa and lobby for a rehab program for injured soldiers so their injuries can heal before returned to their units.

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Post by RCNRetired Fri 03 Apr 2015, 03:42

Don't think any explanation other than what Rags has done did to be here. We started bantering this back and forth and then others came in and we bantered some more. Rags has an opinion and for that we must respect it, I as well as many others do not share the same ideals, Rags rank upon retirement nor his pensions have nothing to do with what we were discussing. I believe actually I read in one of his posts that his maj was in but he was out, but again, rank has nothing to do with discussions.

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Post by Guest Thu 02 Apr 2015, 16:55

Rags you said you were an IG in the artillery so you retired at least a major thats a hell of a good pension, vet pension , and sisip to. Your not struggling to buy grocerys or pay your mortgage while other disabled vets are, so what the hell kind of shit are you trying to stir up. im just a little bit suspicious on how hard your pushing the subject. please explain!

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Post by Guest Thu 02 Apr 2015, 13:36

Good subject!!! The main problem whit categories are the sub categories. Once you start playing this game well every body wants his own categorie. Wound at the front line ? how far were you from the enemy? was the bullet intended for you or was it a ricochey. You are a cook and your camp is bomed out 10 kilomiters from the front line is it the same as being on the front line? And oh ya how far was the enemy. Your MLVW flips over going into the front line or coming back out of the front line is it different? Mecanics are a non combat trade.. Are they? I've seen them do stuff that could put some grunt's to chame. Driver are non combat... are you sure! How the hell drove all thous kilometers getting us resupplied? I agree that many people are recieving pensions for not much apart from being stupid or clumsy but if we start categorising every case we will end up in a administrative gargool f.... that will be a nightmare. I get your point rag. We did boocoo crazy work and it was hard, it is almost insulting to see some vet's get pensions. But it the way it must be or men like us will be scrutenized for every little thing we ever did and I will bet you a can of maple syrop that we would all loose in this adventure. So I get your point rags but I will go whit teen on this one.

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Post by Guest Thu 02 Apr 2015, 13:09

Rags,

My fellow Veteran, friend, and CSAT member, just a few words from me to you with the utmost respect.
I am under the impression that you believe that those who responded to your post do not comprehend and or understand what your saying in your provided opinion, or perhaps you think some are taking your opinion out of context.

I don't believe that to be the case, we are all entitled to our own opinions, or points of views, and like you have said, we sometimes can agree to disagree, many of times - or sometimes.
This of course depends on the topic at hand, some controversy, some not so controversy.
I do think that this topic at hand is at the very least controversial, which is ok as long as it stays respectful, I have made some controversial post, I think most have, it is part of having discussions.
In this particular case, you are dead set in believing you are right in what you say - or feel, and to be honest here it sure sounds like  your mind is made up, and no matter what, you are not going to change your point of view.
That is your right, and I think we should all respect you for that.
We have all experienced disagreements over many different topics, and always find a way to overcome our differences, which I am certain this one will be no different.

That said, I think that sometimes and opinion can lead to insult, or even hurt to others even though there is no intention to do so.
This I think can lead to some negative reactions in defending what - or how others feel, that is just the reality of things.
I am certain that your intention was not to insult - or hurt anyone, however, I was hurt by what your points of views were in given your opinion, teen is right, all we need is another fight on our hands, we have enough problems as it is, the thing is when one does sign up into the military, he or she's primary role is to serve their country, part of that service requires that each and everyone of them be able to fight in combat, until that role changes to only reflect certain members, all Veterans will receive equal benefits across the board rather the tax payers like it or not.
This my friend is reality, and I stand by that concept.

So I guess the bottom line here I think is that yes it is true that some will see it the way you see it, but don't expect the ones that don't agree with you to just sit back and not defend their own views, because they will, and my friend that is just the way it is.

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Post by Teentitan Thu 02 Apr 2015, 11:26

Well Rags I think I'm right when I say stop categorizing a veterans injuries no matter when or how the injury occured.

If veterans start to categorize veterans injuries you are giving the VAC bureaucrats permission to categorize us which could very well lead to them to limiting benefits for veterans depending on how they are injured.

Trust me if you let the bureaucrats take charge then they will gladly pounce on it because they have a big fat bonus, which is paid by the Canadian taxpayer, waiting for them to come in under budget for VAC.

It's frustrating enough to fight these bureaucrats to improve the NVC and they troll webistes like this to see what they can get away with.

So as long as you want to agree to disagree I will disagree to agree if you continue to try and categorize veterans and how they get their injuries.
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Post by Guest Thu 02 Apr 2015, 11:23

My position is Fix It!

One Standard for all Veterans Period!

The more you are broken the more "Life Tme" support needed !


( Where, When, or How your broken doesnt matter! Just fix it)


Last edited by cofferfit on Thu 02 Apr 2015, 11:28; edited 2 times in total

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Post by Rags Thu 02 Apr 2015, 11:08

You can twist and angle what I said all ya want but in the end the position is the same you either agree or disagree on the key points of the discussion. It would appear that there is an abundance of respondents here that feel all military members injured while a CF member should be treated equally when it comes to compensation and who pays that compensation. Be they on duty or not or in combat or not or even non military related illness.

 I will agree to disagree with all of you. But lets clarify a few things as in some of your responses you make it sound like I dont want some CF members to get medical support....thats false I never said or suggested that. It is further incorrectly assumed that I said or suggested that some CF members based on trade or element that that defines the support a CF member should get.
So lets be clear:
My Position again so you dont twist it.
There is no legal or moral or ethical reason not to categorize CF members who are injured. Those categories are:
1) CF members injured in combat
2) CF members injured in accidents in a SDA
3) CF members injured while at work
4) CF members injured or become ill outside of work

It is my position that all 4 categories should get medical support and financial compensation!
It is my position that the entity that pays that support and at what level is different by category based on simple factors Moral and ethical obligations and legal liabilities and work place responsibilities. All which are a normal reflection of Canadian life and practice.

I believe we owe this approach to the Canadian public and for our own self respect when we ask the Canadian public through there taxes to pay our bills. You may not agree that a CF member who loses there leg in an IED attack in Afghanistan should be financially supported differently then the drunk idiot off duty who fell of the officers mess roof and lost his leg but I do.
It really is that simple an example.....bye the way that example is a true example of real life it did happen. You can also take it one place further you all who criticized me must think the drunk off duty CF member who drove drunk on a long weekend crashed his 4 wheeler into a CF uniformed member working deserves the same support as the soldier who was run over bye him. Ya boys dont categorize.

So lets agree to disagree......I think Im right....so do the people who pay us. Believe what ya want i the end there are differences in how and why people are injured thus there should be a difference in WHO!!! NOT IF THERE IS SUPPORT. KEY POINT WHO NOT IF!

There is a reason we and the Candian public have Workers Comp, LTD insurance, DVA, Medical Pensions, CPPD even if you dont.

Rags

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