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EQUALITY! Bah-HumBug Just a figment of your imagination!

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Re: EQUALITY! Bah-HumBug Just a figment of your imagination!

Post by Steelgunner on Fri 05 Jan 2018, 00:59

bigrex wrote:I personally don't care what you think about equality. but here on CSAT, we promote the idea of "One Veteran, One standard". So even if you may be happy with 70% of you military pay, as compensation for a lifetime of Pain and suffering, endured for this country, most are not. And I may be wrong, but your nonstop promoting of the new plan, leads me to believe that you really don't care about your fellow Veterans, or that you are a VAC/Liberal staffer, sent onto the site to convince real veterans that we aren't going to be getting the shaft.

Rex’s I applaud you for that post!!!! Thank you 🙏

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Re: EQUALITY! Bah-HumBug Just a figment of your imagination!

Post by Guest on Wed 03 Jan 2018, 18:01

ReliOn wrote:After all is said and done in April 2019 or sooner I will, as a veteran, fight tooth and nail if there is one case of a veteran released 3b medical & unable to return to work due to military injury that isn't receiving at lease 70% of his final salary (including annual Cola adjustment) for life or until he is healthy again.
Tooth and Nail nothing less!

This new program I believe will accomplish this.

I do not give a rats ass if it is not as good as the veterans under the old Pension Act .

Equality my ass, my entire career wasn't about equality.
It was what rank you held, what positions you had,how much you sucked up to the boss, who the career manager was, where you got posted and if the colonel liked you.
It was 40% merit and 60% other stuff!
I succeed in the system because I knew how to play the game. The Game wasn't fair.
The "equitable" treatment of soldiers and sailors by management was barely acceptable. The day to day quality of life for those Jr/Sr Nco  compared to officers and chiefs - there was no comparison.
Their was no fairness but we knew this, accepted it most days and ended up having an exciting, fun, challenging careers in the majority of cases. Unless you were medically disabled like me and most that will read this narrative.

As long as our disabled friends have enough to live in dignity, comfort and are respected-This will be enough.
A full pension as if he had served a full career plus all the established benefits and the medical care needed etc.That will be enough!
What more can we ask for or expect in this "trucked up world" !

EQUALITY!  Bah-HumBug  Just a figment of your imagination!  IMO

Well after hundreds of views of two topic posts not one person did I find with any support for my thoughts and words. I wish you all well

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Re: EQUALITY! Bah-HumBug Just a figment of your imagination!

Post by propat on Wed 03 Jan 2018, 14:54

well buds on the application proses part I fully agree . IT SUCKED FLAT OUT . but I have to state the benefits packages and the application and redress proses or VRAB if you will are two different things just to avoid confusion and to keep what I say in the context I intend .

I do believe todays PA vet gets a far superior benefits package than todays NVC vet and I THINK even more superior than NVC vets of the future .

we have in my opinion two huge problems . todays NVC benefits package is no where near adequate and IT SEEMS getting worse .

we also have an application and redress proses that's absolutely horrible . its just as horrible today as it was back then because its the same system . the only difference being to get anything close to what the PA guy USE to get ( not what he gets today ) with the ABC benefits ya have to go through this proses over and over and over again . its absolutely maddening .

yup that's right when they reduced vets benefits in 2006 ya think with the untold billions they were going to save on the blood and lives of afghan vets alone they at least could have replaced or fixed VRAB . sadly greed knows no bounds . this was not fixed .

and unfortunately the new system that SEEMS to me to be reducing compensation even further they still are not fixing that problem .

now I cant say what problems worse , the reduction of benefits seemingly trending downward , or the fracked up application and redress proses.

I mean if benefits go down to nothing a fair proses doesn't matter because its not worth going through even a fair proses for nothing .

of course if they simply got rid of these new changes and gave the option for the PA pain and suffering pension bringing back at least something very close to equality if not in fact equality what does it matter if ya cant even get the fracking benefits in the first place .

maybe one is more important than the other I don't know but I believe they are both problems that do need fixing .

you may agree or disagree with all , none or part of this . that's fine not a problem and perhaps a good thing . if we all agreed on everything all the time would we still be human ?

always question authority

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Re: EQUALITY! Bah-HumBug Just a figment of your imagination!

Post by bigrex on Wed 03 Jan 2018, 14:27

At least under the PA, it didn't matter if you were a no hook Private, or the CDS, your PA pension was based on the disability. it also didn't matter if you had 1 year of service or 30. And the vast majority of claims were at least initially decided upon, within 6 months from first contact with VAC. the appeal process is what took the most time. Nowadays, it can take almost that long, just to collect and send all the paperwork to Charlottetown, when the 16 weeks timetable starts. And they can't even live up to their own service standards. My father was approved for PTSD in 2015, and is still waiting for his final assessment.

As far as other your statements, taking care of the severely disabled veterans is fine, but speaking as one of those severely disabled Veterans, I think that every disabled veteran should be taken care of, when compared to equally disabled veterans from past years. There is enough inequality, based on rank and years of service, built into benefits, such as the ELB, that we don't need to add artificial inequality based on when you are injured.
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Re: EQUALITY! Bah-HumBug Just a figment of your imagination!

Post by Guest on Wed 03 Jan 2018, 13:45

]

Propat
Then we do have things we can converse about Smile
The old PA wasnt fair. I will concede it was actually slightly fairer than the NVC. ( one example  High ranking senior officer  had his/her 100% disability pension fully approved in 14 calendar days long before the disabled corporal suffering from similar issues his took 32 month and when he got it finally he was worst off than he was before he started the process! All before 2006 all,under PA ) There is likely thousands of examples of the unfairness/mistreatments  under the old pension act.

I just believe its possible under this new plan  a disabled vet can get a full 35 yr pension. All his medical paid for and his needs met. Especially once they are deemed DEC. If  not I will fight for that for him or her until I kick over.
I will not fight for something that has never existed on this planet "One Standard" BS
But it does sound nice and it appeals to my Christian teaching. IMO

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Re: EQUALITY! Bah-HumBug Just a figment of your imagination!

Post by propat on Wed 03 Jan 2018, 12:55

ReliOn no I DO NOT think we were treated fairly as 031 nor have I stated or implied otherwise .

no I do not think we were treated fairly upon medical release nor have I stated or implied otherwise in fact quite often I have stated quite the opposite .

however I went through the same crappy PA pension proses as EVERYONE else and if successful my disability body part what have you although not worth what I got for it , even thou a lot more than you would get today ,  was the EXACT same as others would get for the exact same disability body part what have you .regardless of rank age sex color creed or and this is the important point what date I applied . a leg or a life to me should be equal regardless of what date you applied .

if that aint one vet one standard I don't know what is . and if that wasn't equality it was a darn sight more equal than what we have today and more so still after the newer changes .

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Re: EQUALITY! Bah-HumBug Just a figment of your imagination!

Post by Guest on Wed 03 Jan 2018, 12:26



Bosn181:
I feel for the 26 who lost this caregiver allowance. Hopefully they will get it back. Let us know how they make out.

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Re: EQUALITY! Bah-HumBug Just a figment of your imagination!

Post by Guest on Wed 03 Jan 2018, 12:19

Propat:
Inf 031 Jr Nco and you actually think you were treated fairly/equally while in the service? Propat you think you were treated fairly after medically released? You think there was EVER  a "One Veteran One Standard"? OH how I wish i could share in the joy.
How misinformed I must be! How out of touch I am with the real military world. Do I stand alone in my confusion?  I still have my opinion and stand beside it!

I think we have nothing to converse about Propat your interpretation is nothing like my experience. All the Best!


Last edited by ReliOn on Wed 03 Jan 2018, 12:43; edited 1 time in total

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Re: EQUALITY! Bah-HumBug Just a figment of your imagination!

Post by Guest on Wed 03 Jan 2018, 12:02

ReliOn wrote:After all is said and done in April 2019 or sooner I will, as a veteran, fight tooth and nail if there is one case of a veteran released 3b medical & unable to return to work due to military injury that isn't receiving at lease 70% of his final salary (including annual Cola adjustment) for life or until he is healthy again.
Tooth and Nail nothing less!

This new program I believe will accomplish this.


Bigrex:

Consider my words I said I would fight tooth and nail IF a disabled Vet that  can not return to work and doesn't get a 70% pension with a COLA factor.
The disabled veteran must get all necessary med cost paid for too. I realize the advantages of SDA also.
I said UP to 360000. I realize most are in the 40k range for pain and suffering

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Re: EQUALITY! Bah-HumBug Just a figment of your imagination!

Post by bosn181 on Wed 03 Jan 2018, 11:18

was at an osis meeting today not sure if its all correct i was told that many people in my area that had care giver approved were now being told they no longer qualify that vac made a mistake and i called vac because my care giver is coming up soon for renewal and asked about this. vac told me yes that there were cases that people were approved but they made a mistake and they will not take money back but will not approve them going forward unless there sistuation changes to meet the proper qualifications once again i hope this does not mean that vac changed the process again made it harder to get because of the number of new people getting qualified but i am sure its a new play on wording and if they can find one more way to kick you when you down they will. don't give up if your one of these people you may have to have it reworded and have an ocupational therapist come do a home assesment on you to help support your claim. the numbers i heard today was as high as 26 people and one of them i know very well and he is not very happy but will get more supporting evidence to prove his needs so equality blah humbug is a vac thing we need to keep fighting to bring the one vet one standard help your fellow vet if you can

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Re: EQUALITY! Bah-HumBug Just a figment of your imagination!

Post by propat on Wed 03 Jan 2018, 11:10

ReliOn we had one vet one standard before . yes equality and we WILL have it again of that I'm sure . I was a soldier once an infantry soldier and I was as good as it gets . didn't even consider any of the things you went on about . the game , whether some senior rank liked me postings , fracking CM never seen one in a meeting only knew the name of my CM once because it was a buddy of mine and I asked him what he was up to when I ran into him. all I knew was the job and those seven guys around me that's all I needed to know and needed to know it well.

given that I expected to be treated like a soldier and I expected when my time was done I would be treated by some like I WAS a soldier .

I DO NOT expect NOR will I accept being treated like one today !!!!

I WILL do as I pleas AND say what I will within the law afforded to all free citizens of this great nation .

of that you can be assured !!!

you may be happy but a great many ARE struggling .

whats two legs and an arm worth anyway ?? 70% ? more? less ? is their really an answer ? I don't believe there is .

whats a life worth say the life of a bread winner 70% for the widow or well a percentage of that to feed a family ??? more?less?

again no real answer but in comparison PA vets of today seem to be closer to the answer than NVC vets of today and IT LOOKS LIKE even more closer still to the answer than the NVC vets of the future .

always question authority

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Re: EQUALITY! Bah-HumBug Just a figment of your imagination!

Post by bigrex on Wed 03 Jan 2018, 10:57

Now I know that you are either woefully uninformed, or deliberately misleading. MOST Veterans under the NVC got an average of $40000 for their disability, NOT $360000. That is a political talking point, not reality. That means in the future, most veterans will get an average 15% pension of $172/mo, not the $2700/mo the MVA was referring to, and not even the $512/mo veterans get under the PA, even if they were the exact same rank, with the exact same disability, and both released on the exact same day in their career. THAT is where we see the inequality between these plans. Those Veterans will also not get the IRB for life, so in reality, they will not get 90%, they will not get 70%, they will not even get 50% of their military pay. It's closer to 6% of what a brand new Private currently makes while in Basic Training ($2985/mo).

Also, unless you have a disability that arose out of time spent in a Special Duty Area (SDA) like Afghanistan, VAC will only cover the medical costs related to your specific disability. IE, if you break your back in training, they will pay for your wheelchair, but if you develop a heart condition several years later , they will not pay for those medications.
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Re: EQUALITY! Bah-HumBug Just a figment of your imagination!

Post by Guest on Wed 03 Jan 2018, 06:26

bigrex wrote:I personally don't care what you think about equality. but here on CSAT, we promote the idea of "One Veteran, One standard". So even if you may be happy with 70% of you military pay, as compensation for a lifetime of Pain and suffering, endured for this country, most are not. And I may be wrong, but your nonstop promoting of the new plan, leads me to believe that you really don't care about your fellow Veterans, or that you are a VAC/Liberal staffer, sent onto the site to convince real veterans that we aren't going to be getting the shaft.

Bigrex:
I am happy for veterans getting 70% or as i see it a full 35 year pension for life
I am happy that veterans get up to 360000 bucks for pain and suffering
I am happy veteran get a list of benefit as long as my arm to deal with the medical conditions
I WILL be happy when DEC is given to more vets.

One Veteran One Standard maybe a nice dream ideal. I like the sound of it too !
Is that working? No never will.

If it was working or could work it would be One Soldier One Standard! While serving!
Are Generals treated the same as a Senior officer?
Are senior officers treat the same as a private?
Is a CWO treated the same as an MWO?
Are even Sgts Treated the same as a Cpls?

The answer to each and ever Question is  resoundingly NO!

The reality of One Veteran One Standard doesn't exist.
The reality of One Soldier One Standard doesn't exist either.

I believe that every disabled veteran deserves to live with dignity,respect and comfort. A full pension  70% and all medical needs paid for --- Can works for us---- and it CAN be achieved by this recent announcement.

Bigrex do not suggest that a disabled  veteran would ONLY get 70% pension. He will get lifetime support medical support too. That is the equalizer. IMO

Let it be known I am not a fan of Trudeau anymore. I voted liberal just because of his promises to Vets. I can assure you i have done and continue to do my part for disabled vets.

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Re: EQUALITY! Bah-HumBug Just a figment of your imagination!

Post by bosn181 on Tue 02 Jan 2018, 22:58

i have to agree with bigrex even though i say i am happy because i don't want to be an angry person and bitter but i still hopefull that one day it will be one vet one standard. how long will this take? will i be around long enough to see it i am not sure. my goal is to try and help as many get the info and help they need to guide them through the paper work for those that have the injuries what ever they are but don't have good skills at wording or using computer. most times vac turns people down because it was not worded right or key eveidence was left out. if you have problems that happened on military time but they choose to kick you in the teeth and denied you. they are the people we need to reach and help get more of what they need not just us sitting back being happy doing nothing because if we wait around for vac or gov to help make it right then we be sitting a very very long time. if we cant get equality lets help our other vets get more quality care and help

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