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Pension for Life reply from VAC

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bosn181
Teager
Teentitan
bigrex
lyonhart
johnny211
czerv
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Armygunner
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Vet1234
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Post by bosn181 Mon 12 Nov 2018, 17:57

the way the gov set up this pension was to save money and they being called on it i don't think they will change it before it goes live but hope next gov will fix it i won't hold my breath.

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Post by propat Mon 12 Nov 2018, 17:53

ok boys if you can be disciplined with money you can easily ern 4% on your buyout . that's over $ 1200.00 a month for a 100% disability buyout . if you pass on in two years time or 200 years time that monthly interest can be passed on IN FULL and passed on again and again so it can last not just one lifetime but forever . or maybe the person you pass it on to just wants the cash then they get the FULL buyout amount PLUS . I see NO upside to this monthly pension no matter your age . if the monthly PLF amounts equaled the PA monthly amounts we would be having a very different conversation .

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Post by Vet1234 Mon 12 Nov 2018, 15:29

what does
"It delivers a maximum of
$1,150 per month for the life of the serving member or
Veteran, or it can be provided in a lump sum payment. The
highest possible lump sum payment of the PSC would be
the same as the maximum Disability Award payment on
the day before coming into force".
mean?
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Post by Teager Mon 12 Nov 2018, 15:22

If they didn't see anything for CIA I highly doubt they will when it changes to APSC. They are not changing the criteria to receive this but are only removing the "amount of time served" to base your level on. It will solely be based on the medical criteria that currently exists now.

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Post by Guest Mon 12 Nov 2018, 15:19

bosn181 wrote:the younger you are the better for monthly or lump sum, $1150 a month not much for anyone that's close to 60 years old and got a lump sum already.  i think the delay is cause they worried so many older vets will see nothing change with the $1150 but some may see an increase with the additional pain and suffering money. delay delay delay denied denied denied . if you were 100% lump sum paid at $1150 a month takes just over 22 years in payments at $1150 to pay off what we already got of the 360k.  now some that did not get the pia or the cia when it changed names they should see something when it changes again to additional pain and suffering. wait and see how it all plays out no matter what happens there going to be many many upset vets out there.

I get your point bosn but sharpen your pencil.  It would take 26.1 years to hit the 360k mark not 22.  That’s if the payment is staying at $1,150 per month.  So anyone at 52 years old or younger take the monthly.  78 - 26 = 52

In 26.1 years $1,150 per month is not going to be worth the same amount with cost of living  inflation.  Are they going to adjust each year?  They don’t adjust VIP but cost of yard work goes up every year.

VAC has been screwing us for years with all these adjustments and new policies.  The number one thing to fix in VAC is service in my opinion, the wait times are unbelievable.   Fix service and backlogs VAC, then go back to PA and stick to a one standard for all veterans. All these changes have probably cost VAC more money instead of their projected savings if they would have stayed with the PA.   You can’t make a better wheel go around and around but the current MVA thinks he can.

Can’t wait for version four from the next GOC.


Last edited by Steelgunner on Mon 12 Nov 2018, 15:28; edited 1 time in total

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Post by bosn181 Mon 12 Nov 2018, 13:55

the younger you are the better for monthly or lump sum, $1150 a month not much for anyone that's close to 60 years old and got a lump sum already. i think the delay is cause they worried so many older vets will see nothing change with the $1150 but some may see an increase with the additional pain and suffering money. delay delay delay denied denied denied . if you were 100% lump sum paid at $1150 a month takes just over 22 years in payments at $1150 to pay off what we already got of the 360k. now some that did not get the pia or the cia when it changed names they should see something when it changes again to additional pain and suffering. wait and see how it all plays out no matter what happens there going to be many many upset vets out there.

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Post by bigrex Mon 12 Nov 2018, 11:27

See, that is why we need the calculation sheet ASAP. No guesswork, no speculation. just plain black and white facts. These can be possibly huge decisions for Veterans, and they should have the proper amount of time to explore all the possibilities.
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Post by Guest Mon 12 Nov 2018, 10:53

Teager wrote:The way I read it and it has been stated is that you get the choice of the lump sum at $365 or whatever it's at or the PFL. You don't get more than the max lump sum. I believe they do this so more people take the PFL as it can be more money IF you live for X amount of time and also depends on your current age.
that would be my question, the older you are would it not make sense to take a lump sum over pfl. If a vet is 25 he would see a monthly payment for 50 years, but when you’re already 60, the rest of your life feels very close, personally I think an older person would be better off to take a lump sum and sort out what little QOL they have left

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Post by czerv Mon 12 Nov 2018, 10:31

Knowing how those shi* heads at VAC 'work' some of us will probably end up owing $$ to the government. After all, they are experts.

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Post by Guest Mon 12 Nov 2018, 08:55

Teager wrote:The way I read it and it has been stated is that you get the choice of the lump sum at $365 or whatever it's at or the PFL. You don't get more than the max lump sum. I believe they do this so more people take the PFL as it can be more money IF you live for X amount of time and also depends on your current age.

Not saying your right or wrong Teager.   I will say this is a very confusing mess that VAC is in and we as Veterans can’t make heads or tails out of there new system. Further more to your statement Teager, if correct about the Max $365K then it should be pretty simple. Total up your lump sum payments and that one time additional lump sum payment then:
365 - 300k (example off a vets total LSP 300k) = $65k

Then that vet would either have a low monthly payment for life for this particular benefit or take the $65K as a lump sum. That’s the way I see it, I could be right or wrong. Either way VAC has done a very poor way of rolling out the third tier system.

Someone stated above that VAC had a letter ready but decided to pull it because it’s to confusing.  If VAC can’t explain it right and they made the new policy it’s got to be a bad new system.

Let’s see Seamus try to explain this one without lying.

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Post by Teager Mon 12 Nov 2018, 08:25

The way I read it and it has been stated is that you get the choice of the lump sum at $365 or whatever it's at or the PFL. You don't get more than the max lump sum. I believe they do this so more people take the PFL as it can be more money IF you live for X amount of time and also depends on your current age.

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Post by Guest Mon 12 Nov 2018, 00:21

bigrex wrote:To me, that is unclear for those of us who have been given LSA. Will be given the choice of taking the reduced monthly PFL, or a second LSA?

For example,  if they calculate that once the previous LSA is deducted, it leaves a Veteran with a monthly PFL pension of $100, plus COLA, for 30 years. Is that Veteran stuck taking that $100/mo, or will he be able to forfeit the future COLA, and take the LSA of $36000 ( 100 + 360 months)

Well Rex, we don’t no all the variables in their formula.   What average age are they using now? ( 2017 - 78 male & 83 female)
We don’t no the annuity factors.
NVC Vets will get a reduced rate as we see in there examples.  

Awards in 2006.  100% injury rate/percentage age 32 male
$250,000 (2006)plus  $47,670  (ALS 2017) = $297,670
156 (time from 2006 in months) x $1150 (month PFL payment) = $179,400

$297,670 - 179,400 = $118,270

118,270 div by the annuity factor (mortality rate, interest, inflation). = $270 per month

$1150 - $270 = $880 per month  

The example they used was male 32.     ( 78-32= 46 years).
46 x 12= 552 months.  552 x $880 = $485,760

Example could take $880 per month for life or lump sum of $485,760

Keep in mind this is for additional pain and suffering benefit tax free.   You would get your other benifits accordingly.

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Post by bigrex Sun 11 Nov 2018, 21:59

To me, that is unclear for those of us who have been given LSA. Will be given the choice of taking the reduced monthly PFL, or a second LSA?

For example,  if they calculate that once the previous LSA is deducted, it leaves a Veteran with a monthly PFL pension of $100, plus COLA, for 30 years. Is that Veteran stuck taking that $100/mo, or will he be able to forfeit the future COLA, and take the LSA of $36000 ( 100 + 360 months)
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Post by Guest Sun 11 Nov 2018, 21:19

Yes, I have seen those examples.  But they
are examples of taking the monthly payment.  Nothing on the lump sum.  We need the formula they use to arrive at these numbers because they never really told us how they arrived at the past numbers based on your percentage and date you received payment.  I understand there method, but they where giving X, Y, Z but how did they arrive at the number to complete the end sum number.

Example the additional lump sum payment.  Who decides what percentage the final number would be arrived at.

We understand each ones percentage and dates of claims but they times it by X.  Who decides X, they just pick a lower number.  Because based on what the PA Vets get over a life the NVC where given an extra lump sum to come inline with the PA Vets but the payment in my opinion was not enough.  They paid us the extra lump sum and that shows they where wrong in there calculations.  They are still wrong in there calculations, the PFL is going to save them more money.  They are paying Vets less and they know it.

The only answer to this problem is a one tier system for all which equates to one standard- one Veteran.   The Future PFL vets will be going to court and some of us will be involved to help them.

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Post by Teager Sun 11 Nov 2018, 20:52

Yes, they are taking the lump sum into consideration. There are examples on the PFL/VAC site that shows what they do if you already received a lump sum. You will get a reduced PFL but it depends on numerous factors such as when you received your lump sum your percent and age and the annuity factor. There could be some who get nothing more.

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