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PFL - Formula?

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Post by Newfie on Wed 17 Oct 2018, 14:04

Awhile ago someone posted on here a formula used to determine if or any money we would receive with new PFL. Easiest way I can explain is you used your DA award years and $1150 and months to determine monthly award or take as lump sum.  Sorry I cant remember much more that. Must be all that legal marijuana here on the Rock  Thanks

.

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Post by bigrex on Wed 17 Oct 2018, 16:23

It is quite complicated, especially if you have received multiple disability awards, under the NVC, spread out over the last 13 years. But basically, what they will do, is calculate how much PFL pensions you would have received, if the NVC had used them instead, of the Lump sum. From that amount, they will subtract the money received as lump sums, to determine how much money you will need to pay back over your lifetime.

Example

IF a Veteran received 100% LSA of $250000 in Apr 2006, at the age of 25, plus $40000 from the top up. Their past PFL will be $1150 x 156 months = $179400. 290000 - 179400 = 110600. So with the current age of 38, the balance owing would be divided up, over however many months until they reach age 84( $110600/ 552 months  = 200.36). Then that would be deducted from their future PFL payments. ($1150 - $200 = $950/month).

So the Veteran would either get $950 per month, plus COLA, for life, or possibly take a lump sum payment of $524400 ($950 x 552 months). I haven't seen anything that verifies the ability to take a one time payment of PFL, or what the calculations would be, so take that aspect with a grain of salt.
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Post by Newfie on Wed 17 Oct 2018, 16:30

Thank you bigrex

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Post by Newfie on Wed 17 Oct 2018, 16:38

Does this fall under pain and suffering compensation that the PFL is introducing in 2019?I saw under that fact sheet that there are 2 payment delivery options with and lump sum is listed there.

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Post by Guest on Wed 17 Oct 2018, 17:02

bigrex wrote:It is quite complicated, especially if you have received multiple disability awards, under the NVC, spread out over the last 13 years. But basically, what they will do, is calculate how much PFL pensions you would have received, if the NVC had used them instead, of the Lump sum. From that amount, they will subtract the money received as lump sums, to determine how much money you will need to pay back over your lifetime.

Example

IF a Veteran received 100% LSA of $250000 in Apr 2006, at the age of 25, plus $40000 from the top up. Their past PFL will be $1150 x 156 months = $179400. 290000 - 179400 = 110600. So with the current age of 38, the balance owing would be divided up, over however many months until they reach age 84( $110600/ 552 months  = 200.36). Then that would be deducted from their future PFL payments. ($1150 - $200 = $950/month).

So the Veteran would either get $950 per month, plus COLA, for life, or possibly take a lump sum payment of $524400 ($950 x 552 months). I haven't seen anything that verifies the ability to take a one time payment of PFL, or what the calculations would be, so take that aspect with a grain of salt.
so from this ,is ot possible for a vet to have been so old already or received so much money that his new monthly payment would be 0? I mean if someone is 30 theres another 50 til 80, but if hes already 60 it's only 20. So if they are adding and subtracting based on life expectancy ,could a vet end up in the hole?

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Post by bigrex on Wed 17 Oct 2018, 17:32

yes, it is quite possible that people will find themselves not getting anything under the PFL, because they were older when they got their LSA's, and got them in the last couple of years, instead of earlier in the NVC's life.
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Post by Supremedebater on Thu 18 Oct 2018, 18:39

I just had a conversation with a case manager, I don't have one but this lady said and I quote "don't count on a lump sum because many vets at 100% will not be getting what they thought" she also said they just had a meeting yesterday about the PFL....I think this is going to get ugly. And a " I don't want you to get your hopes up" is bad news to me. Anyway she continued to say that many vets that received the max lump sum and at 100% will not owe, but they won't be getting much if at all anything. I hate giving bad news but that is from a descent source and she just had a fresh meeting about the pfl. I think that many vets will uprise over this one.

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Post by Guest on Thu 18 Oct 2018, 19:04

Supremedebater wrote:I just had a conversation with a case manager, I don't have one but this lady said and I quote "don't count on a lump sum because many vets at 100% will not be getting what they thought" she also said they just had a meeting yesterday about the PFL....I think this is going to get ugly. And a " I don't want you to get your hopes up" is bad news to me. Anyway she continued to say that many vets that received the max lump sum and at 100% will not owe, but they won't be getting much if at all anything. I hate giving bad news but that is from a descent source and she just had a fresh meeting about the pfl. I think that many vets will uprise over this one.
When they say they had a “meeting”,does this mean all CM s across Canada are privi to the same information all at the same time? If this turns out badly it is every vets duty to spread the word to non military on what the Liberals PFL really means...which is sweet F all. I know people always raise the arguement that the PC did far worse during their decade in power, but the past is the past, The new PM had the ability to turn back the sands of time and chose not to. For that the party Must face the “firing squad “, and be ousted.

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Post by Teager on Thu 18 Oct 2018, 19:09

But since the Equitas lawsuit lost it basically gives the government of the day to do what they please with our benefits. We could wake up tomorrow and they could say we are taking it all away. Something has to be put into law that says the government has to look after veterans properly. This is what needs to be hammered away during the elections is getting whatever party to put something into law.

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Post by Supremedebater on Thu 18 Oct 2018, 23:03

Teager wrote:But since the Equitas lawsuit lost it basically gives the government of the day to do what they please with our benefits. We could wake up tomorrow and they could say we are taking it all away. Something has to be put into law that says the government has to look after veterans properly. This is what needs to be hammered away during the elections is getting whatever party to put something into law.

I disagree. I think any government that gets in won't even try that sh*t. And I'll tell you this, they piss off guys and gals don't be too shocked if someone goes postal on the gov and snaps. Just to saying that if they think they will get away with it, the last people they want to cut benefits is a trained soldier that has nothing to lose....that would be scary. No government is dumb enough regardless who is in power to cut benefits.

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Post by Teager on Fri 19 Oct 2018, 08:21

But they are cutting benefits with the PFL like the CIA Supplement. They just cut benefits in more creative ways but making the restrictions and criteria more difficult or so that it only applies to a very few. The last government cut staff and closed offices which in a way probably cut some vets off from applying for benefits.

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Post by Guest on Fri 19 Oct 2018, 10:57

Teager wrote:But they are cutting benefits with the PFL like the CIA Supplement. They just cut benefits in more creative ways but making the restrictions and criteria more difficult or so that it only applies to a very few. The last government cut staff and closed offices which in a way probably cut some vets off from applying for benefits.
it's what always happens , when people complain about the Liberals someone else says " look what the PCs did ", we cannot change the past, but when someone new comes to power they could have fixed all past transgressions and ended up looking like a hero in the eyes of the military and its supporters. All everyone was asking for was a return to the old PFL, instead Trudeau plans to gather up all the dangling carrots, bundle them into a bushel and place them so high up in the tree that no disabled person could ever climb it.

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Post by pinger on Fri 19 Oct 2018, 15:21

. . . and gold-plate the bushel nice and shiny.
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Post by propat on Fri 19 Oct 2018, 21:28

yup they changed the pain and suffering award worth over $4000.00 a month , for a guy with a wife and two kids , to a buyout worth a small fraction of that .

now they are giving you the option of taking your pain and suffering buyout as a monthly pension of over $1100.00 that was once worth over $4000.00 .

yup the pain and suffering pension went from a aprox value of over $4000.00 to over $1100.00 a month .

some might think it might be hard for them to come up with that $1100.00 plus a month but since the CIAS is over $1100 a month now if Im not mistaken all they had to do is get rid of that and no more problem .

and there ya have it sure they could have just eliminated the pain and suffering benefit and left the CIAS alone but that would be politicly embarrassing so you have the bait and switch .

yup NVC vets after april first 2019 will be receiving at least over $1100.00 less than the NVC vets that came before them and a crap load less than current PA guys that came before then all things being equal.

BUT HEYYYY they produced the monthly pension lol.

and they say ya cant polish a turd .

frackers

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Post by Guest on Tue 23 Oct 2018, 11:39

Below link is how VAC so far explains PFL.

https://indd.adobe.com/view/97f56415-a30e-4565-ad32-1046be638a04

I have always had a bad feeling about this for us VET’s but I really worry for the future Vets.

They have made it so hard to follow and understand that you know it’s a plan to save the government money and just plainly screw us.  Does not matter who is in power all three parties are to blame for this constant mess and failed retooling of the care for Veterans.

If you click on link and read how they arrive at the formula for PFL you will notice at the end they mention other benefits and bring up the Educational Benefit.  They do so the word “may”!   You no what that means.

A 100% Veteran does not qualify for the Educational Benefit under the new programs.  There statement is misleading and is in my opinion a printed lie.  

There is a reason they pick April 1st and it’s not just the year end.  Why don’t the MP’s apply this formula to there on Federal Government Pension if it’s so good.

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