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Post by Tango-33 on Tue 20 Nov 2018, 21:13

Can you talk me out of this conclusion I keep coming to, if the monthly payment would be 785 for the 600 months (total value of 471,000 - pre discounted,) then wouldn't the lump sum option be 360k? Ie cash out monthly payments to a maximum of the current disability maximum language?

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Post by bigrex on Tue 20 Nov 2018, 22:06

Believe me, I hope that we will be able to take a second lump sum, because I would rather get an extra $40000+, than a PFL pension, that is reduced to a measly $100-130/month, for the next 30 years. After COLA is added, I'd be lucky if it hits the $200 dollar mark, by the time I hit 80 years old.
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Post by exarmyguy on Wed 21 Nov 2018, 06:58

Tango-33 wrote:Can you talk me out of this conclusion I keep coming to, if the monthly payment would be 785 for the 600 months (total value of 471,000 - pre discounted,) then wouldn't the lump sum option be 360k? Ie cash out monthly payments to a maximum of the current disability maximum language?

this is exactly what been bothering me too. and I have no answer. we all might be very disappointed when the letters come out.

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Post by Steelgunner on Wed 21 Nov 2018, 11:41

I think it’s really  funny how VAC is treating  us, first off they created this mess with going from PA to NVC and now to PFL.  They want to save money and reduce payments, basically ripping off the future Veterans.  

VAC has calculated what they owe the NVC Vets, they now realize how much they have to pay us off to get to the new PFL scam program.  They are basically try to spin the payout, trying very hard to spin it in away that they can rip off the NVC VETS.  Very sad situation that we are in and we have to keep them inline and show to the public what the VAC spin doctors are creating. Rename programs, smoke and mirrors, shell game, etc.

VAC is not fooling any Veterans, in this day and age of instant information it might have work before for you VAC. But not any more.  Treat us fair, with respect, and fix the backlog/wait times.

Get the letters out on PFL.

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Post by bigrex on Wed 21 Nov 2018, 12:24

What pisses me off the most, is that they blatantly lied about not having to pay back the lump sum awards. We may not have to send them a cheque for that money, but we are having to pay it back, over our lifetime, by reducing the future monthly payments.
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Post by Steelgunner on Wed 21 Nov 2018, 17:08

bigrex wrote:What pisses me off the most, is that they blatantly lied about not having to pay back the lump sum awards. We may not have to send them a cheque for that money, but we are having to pay it back, over our lifetime, by reducing the future monthly payments.

Totally agree Bigrex, another challenge for us when the letter comes out to see what they decided to do with us.
1.  Totally honour their promises to Veterans.
2.  Keep up the confusing shell game of new phoney benefit renaming.
3.   Ask us to turn around and pull our pants down to our ankles.
4.   Uncle Walt will give reach around to Veterans if #3 is the course of action but only if you request it with the correct password. “I surrender”
5.  None of the above.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/politics/liberals-pension-plan-for-disabled-veterans-won-t-take-effect-until-2019-1.3729370

Can we hold them to this from above link?

“Officials said the more than 61,000 veterans who have already received a lump-sum award will be assessed to determine how much they would have received per month. They will also be eligible for the new benefit, which officials said will be retroactive and could result in substantial one-time payments.
The government will also lump together six different benefits for veterans who can't find work or whose post-military careers pay less than when they were serving in uniform.
Yet it wasn't immediately clear who will be eligible for different elements of the new pension plan, or even which of the income-replacement programs will remain in existence after they are merged.
O'Regan guaranteed no disabled veteran will end up with less money, and the department plans to launch an advertising campaign to educate former service members about the plan.
"All of those covered under the (existing) New Veterans Charter will be automatically assessed against the new pension-for-life program," O'Regan said.”
"And no individual will be subject to a net-decrease in overall benefit."

Ps: and further more.  
We must promote the answer to the Veterans blight.

We should be advocating radical changes in the way Veterans are treated , including a realignment of services to controlled by an elected board of Veterans.  That is run by a non-profit corporation rather than a government agency.

Steelgunner


Last edited by Steelgunner on Thu 22 Nov 2018, 00:53; edited 1 time in total

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Post by bigrex on Wed 21 Nov 2018, 23:39

I honestly have no idea what they are thinking, because even if someone received a 100% award om April 1st 2006, and qualified for the absolute maximum possible retroactive PFL, it would still only come to $179400, ($1150 x 156 months). $70000 less than the minimum LSA for a 100% veteran, and that was before they paid the LSA top up. So the only 2 ways a Veteran could get a 'sizable" one time payment, is if they pay out the PFL a veteran would earn over their life, as a lump sum, or they will pay the difference between what they had received, and what is paid out for that level this year. So that 100% Veteran from 2006, would get the difference between the current $360k+, and their previous payments.

Those are the only way that I can see, that the NVC Veterans aren't going to get completely screwed by the PFL calculations.
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Post by Sailor63 on Thu 22 Nov 2018, 00:10

I've been watching this post for quite some time and I am going to chime in - to maybe try and bring some clarity and alleviate false expectations around big lump sums - as there aren't going to be any big amount as discussed by many on this thread. To bring clarity. The lump sum is applicable to the PFL only; it is not applicable to the APSC. Furthermore, the maximum lump sum under the new PFL that one can draw is the maximum 360,000K (or whatever the indexed amount is on April 1, 2019. Suffice to say that if over the remainder of your life under the PFL monthly payment you get an additional 200K over your lifetime and have already gotten 300K, you will end up receiving more money that someone who simply takes the difference in the lump sum. Two people same age, same DA%age, one decides to take the remaining lump sum to a maximum of 360K will receive less than the individual who chooses to take their PFL (with the claw back calculated over the annuity rate/life expectancy). They are trying to encourage people to take the PFL.

There will be no lump sum for the APSC.

Not the news people were expecting, but this is pretty clear in the legislation. Sorry to burst the lump sum bubbles.

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Post by Howie1 on Thu 22 Nov 2018, 00:26

It may very well not be available for the APSC, but it still shows on their fact sheet for the PSC.

PAYMENT AND DELIVERY
Members and Veterans may choose from two different
payment methods:
• A monthly payment for the remainder of their lives
• A lump sum cash out.
If the member or Veteran changes his or her mind in the
future and wishes to stop receiving a monthly payment,
he or she may instead receive the balance of the PSC in
a lump sum payment.

After reading pretty much every article and posting about it and scouring the Vac Website, It still shows that there is 2 lump sum options. The first being the PFL and the second being the PSC.

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Post by Steelgunner on Thu 22 Nov 2018, 00:48

Even the government trolls who visit this site can’t explain PFL correctly.


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Post by Teager on Thu 22 Nov 2018, 09:20

Yes, it says there's 2 options but I think those 2 options are only for new claims going forward. From what I have read it says if you have already received a lump sum award a calculation will be made to see if you are eligible for a MONTHLY amount. It says nothing about getting a lump sum amount. The best way to go about this is assume there's no lump sum amounts if your under the NVC. If it turns out there is then it's an option for those that want it but at least the disappointment won't be as bad.

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Post by Steelgunner on Thu 22 Nov 2018, 10:16

Teager It’s really not about the amount if we get X amount of money monthly or if we even get the option of cashing it in for a lump sum amount.  I expect nothing and hopefully get something, no illusion anymore of the GOC/VAC doing the right thing.   It’s about providing the correct information, the formula for all Veterans in which VAC arrives at their finial numbers for each individual veteran.  

If you remember last year they dumped the PFL plan in our laps just before Christmas and basically disappeared under the holidays hoping the Veterans would ease their disappointment over the holidays.   Expect the same this year.

I am actually more pissed off for the fact future veterans will get less.  VAC and the MVA are promoting this PFL without providing the whole picture.  It’s saving them money, at the expense of future veterans well being.

I have always stated, it’s easy to compare files with the MVA but he refuses to sit down and talk.
Get a PA Vet, A NVC Vet, and the future new PFL Vet to sit down and compare their income benefits based on 100% then work backwards to see the real picture.  The MVA said in an article that some Veterans are spreading miss truths about the PFL, actually we are not.  We are confused and uniformed by your constant lack of providing key information on the new PFL.   We are treated like mushrooms, kept in the dark.

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Post by bigrex on Thu 22 Nov 2018, 10:56

The thing is, the legislation really only applies to the claims going forward. It really doesn't address exactly how NVC Veterans will, or should be, treated.
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Post by Armygunner on Thu 22 Nov 2018, 14:18

I'm hoping the PFL letters of calculation due come out at Xmas time; at least we will have a better understanding and time to make sound financial decisions. IMHO I can't see why NVC vets won't be offered another Lump-sum award based on VAC calculations of course, as we all will fall under the new 2019 charter.

Until we have such letter we Vets will be left in the dark, confused, pissed off and speculating till the cows come home.


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Post by czerv on Thu 22 Nov 2018, 16:32

Friends, absolutely nothing to worry about in respect of calculations done by VAC. After all, these are the same people who did all the calculations for veterans before. (And now VAC owns those veterans mils of $$ after some outside audit found out that VAC is short changing veterans).
We are in good and capable hands of VAC.

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