ELB Class Action Law Suit

meteck

both in most cases but sum are getting some help with claims and such but not many. the thing is its random the few that are getting help arnt necessarily the ones that need it the most just random. but that's on the lack of help side they all have lack of funds problems some their own fault through buying a home fore their family ore whatnot with their lump sum before attaining a steady income. now I have to say only the 100% ers are getting ore think they will get the ELB ,PIA AND SUPLEMENT from what I have seen however their is no guarantee of how fast their claims will be processed regardless of that 18 week policy ore whatever it is. having said that ive heard of 100% ers getting denied but cant say fore sure as I don't know any personaly.

always question authority

propat

teen I don't normally yell ore scream but I make my point not quietly so moast cant here me well you know the sound of that voice. my voice carries. its loud clear and concise and direct to the point without much political BS dancing around the issue. I don't say end the NVC but improve it so these guys get the same benefits as us. I really don't think that's to much to ask. teen the NDP don't want to end the NVC just change the buyout to a PA type pension equally to what we have. yes they will be garnished a percentage to pay back the lump sum but as long as its not that big of a percentage that is fair. they can study this thing for years if they want they are not likely to come up with a better plan then that. sooo they should do this immediately and then study their little brains out to their harts content then if they find a better solution they can tweak this "living breathing document".

to the GOC.

DO THIS NOW ORE WE WILL REPLACE YOU WITH SOMEONE THAT WILL!!!!!

always question authority

propat

propat I don't want to get into a political party fight but I want to point out first I totally agree with you. End the buyout now!

One question you can ask the NDP is this...How are you going to end the buyout now? Also if you end it are you going to go back to the PA?

Just about every vet organization at VAC Stakeholder meetings, OVO meetings, Vet Org meetings have all said end the buyout now. Only problem is NO ONE has come up with a solid alternative.

Let's be realistic there is good benefits to the NVC and bad benefits of the PA. Combining both would be the ideal solution. Problem is how to do it.

Personally, and I have pitched this to both the OVO and VAC Ministers staff sit down with veteran organizations, VAC, OVO, provincial, municipal and local politicians, doctors and lawyers. Get the best policy people to create a new Veterans Benefits Program written in plain language!

But when they are finished let the veteran community read it for 6 months give their opinions and then fix it.

Question authority propat but make them the right questions during a calm discussion. Because believe me ranting, raving veterans get zero attention even if what they are screaming is logical. I have seen it first hand yell at a bureaucrat and you are ignored.

these friends of yours who were given a lump sum for their injuries,,do they feel angry because of lack of help now or lack of funds now....or both

well the only way to question authority is face to face loud and clear with no uncertain terms not beating around the bush with terms like, we must look at the NVC  again to see if we can make it fair for all vets, but instead words like the buyout portion in the NVC fundamentally unfair and flies in the face of the human rights charter and must end NOW. will you END THIS NOW???? the liberals will probably give you no answer and tories will say NO. only one paty has stated and in writing may I add  THEY WILL END THIS BUYOUT. many good friends of mine are disabled afgan vets and I gota tell you these guys got screwed!!! if you are a member of CSAT and are here to help other vets I ask you pleas don't vote for the party that is actively fighting these guys in their dirty little war on vets.

if we cant support these guys when they need us the most THEN WHAT IN THE FLYING FRACK ARE WE ALL DOING HERE OUTSIDE OF JERKING EACH OTHER OFF?????

WE HAVE A CHANCE TO END THIS WITH JUST ONE VOTE!!!!

if you were told we are allowed to vote whether ore not to keep ore end the buyout wouldn't you show up and vote it down???

you will have that chance next election ,I for one will defend these guys the best way I know how and not leave these guys fight it out alone. I will vote against the party fighting these guys in the courts.

you decide for yourselves.

always question authority

propat

well said

I'm not trying to be a cheerleader for the Cons, they are just as bad as the rest of them.  

I have been to quite a few meetings with the VAC bureaucrats and the Ministers staff and I can see the disconnection between them.  Hell there is disconnection between the bureaucrats within VAC!  

What I'm trying to point out is during the next election it doesn't matter if it's the Communist Party of Canada get the politician to explain "how" they are going to fix the NVC.  I will guarantee the word bureaucrat will not come up in the answer.  That is where you point it out to them and why whatever they say will not work.

Also when they go door to door or phone you or you go to their meetings ask them if veterans are so precious then why are we not in your platform literature?  The main point in their literature should say this...we are going to make the NVC a living charter and review it constantly.  Not every few years every month.

VAC bureaucrats wrote the NVC and it was the same bureaucrats that sat in a room with the heads of 6 veteran organizations one at a time.  They briefed them on the NVC, answered their questions then made them sign a confidentiality agreement not to say anything outside of the room.  That included briefing their own membership.

When the NVC was starting to roll out Ontario Command of the Legion asked "where are the actuarial's on the NVC compared to the PA?"  Dominion Command ordered Ontario Command to remove it from the website and it was done within 24 hours.  Why?  The VAC bureaucrats ordered it that's why.

A lot of these bureaucrats that created the NVC are gone but there is still a hard core group left to defend it.  Over the last few years the Cons have been lightly chipping away at it but not fast enough and not in the right departments. I remind the Ministers staff every time they call me and every time I get a chance at these meetings.

I know there is a lot of disappointment with the pace the Ombudsman is taking.  He's not aggressive enough, he isn't a shouter like Stogran.  Well I was at that table for Stogran's farewell press conference and it was a total zoo that caused a fair bit of damage with other branches of the government.  Especially with the TB when Stogran said "Senior bureaucrats told him soldiers are better off coming home dead."  Not the wisest comment to make in a public forum like a press conference.  To us vets it made sense but bureaucratic-lifers took it as an insult and kept putting VAC issues to the bottom of the "to-do pile".

Guy spent the first year in damage control and started to do what Stogran should have done.  Fight the bureaucrats with the greatest weapon in the GoC arsenal...paperwork!  Due diligence.  The first fight was against VRAB.  The 3 papers the OVO did got rid of the 2 i/c and got more ex military and medical people hired.  I know whoopee.  Well if what they have done is not enough then the OVO can pull out the 3 reports and prove that the bureaucratic fix from VRAB is not enough.

Now the OVO is concentrating on 2 things make the NVC a living charter and the NVC actuarial's that should have been done 6 years ago!

Remember all vet organizations and veterans are late to the table.  The bureaucratic machine at VAC has been plodding along for 9 decades and they know every trick in the book so they know it's not battles they are in it's a war.  And we all know wars last a hell of a lot longer then battles.

A long ramble to say what propat says "question authority".  I'm just trying to point out "which" and "how" to question authority.

no need to correct teen I never said that the NDP didn't vote for it. a good sales job was done and they swallowed it just like the legion did. I only point out the legion as they are the biggest vet photo op for government in power. but other vets orgs sighed off on it to and the NDP knew that. even if they were not fooled by the legion the liberals and the Tories do ya really think they had the votes to stop it???? not even close. even now when they say the want to end they buyout they still don't have the votes. well I say give them the votes and see what happens.  heck when the Tories are told a million times the buyout is wrong and needs to be changed they ignore it. when the voices get so loud that they get sued over it instead of changing it they fight the suit by saying the GOC and people of Canada owe disabled vets NOTHING.
WOW nothing REALLY!!!!!!

if you think that any frackin morons that would treat disabled vets in this fashion are getting my vote I gotta tell ya bus that just aint gona happen!!!

I say any vet that votes for the Tories after seeing all the dirty crap they pulled during the SISIP lawsuit and the dirty crap that started in the equitus   with more to follow will deserve what is coming next if they get in again.

always question authority

propat

Teen, it is a centric government right now. Ministers are not allowed to hold press conferences without the PMO vetting their speeches. Bureaucrats are not allowed to give interviews without permission from the PMO, and even then the PMO tells them what is allowable to discuss. Yes, even the Senate scandal, has happened, but some of the key figures in the scandal were executives within the PMO.

The NVC was created under the Liberals, and many MP's probably thought that this was supposed to be a "living document", when they voted it in. That means they believed that if once it was enacted, and something didn't work, it could be changed rather easily, and that reviews of the programs offered would be ongoing. It has only been after several years, and the other parties seeing that the NVC has not proven to be adaptable as portrayed, adopting only 4 out of hundreds of recommendations, that they have started crying foul. So blame the Liberals all you want for thinking up the NVC, and the other parties for blindly accepting it at the time, but there is only one party that has been in power for the entire duration of the NVC's life, and that is the Tories. So the blame for the NVC not being modified to accept the multiple reports on its shortcomings, lies solely on them, for their unwillingness to listen to the Veterans groups, and even their own appointed Ombudsmen, or their inability to reign in the bureaucrats who may be setting up roadblocks. But honestly, we have all seen the Tories throw bureaucrats under the bus, if they speak out against their legislation or policies in other departments, so I have a hard time believing that any public servant in VAC could dictate to the Tories as to what they are allowed to do with regards to the NVC.

And as far as this next election, as long as Peter Stoffer represents my riding, I will be voting NDP.

Sorta have to correct you a bit propat...ALL PARTIES UNANIMOUSLY voted it thru the HoC faster then shyte thru a goose!

So right now the Cons are holding the keys to it and upholding the decision by all parties.

Not one party questioned anything about the NVC. If the NDP is so against it why didn't they at least get some input from some vet orgs about it before voting?

The true power is not the politicians but the bureaucrats who fight the changes because simplicity and common sense means job loss.

So I would like to hear a political party run on one issue and one issue only...reign in bureaucratic BS to make life easier for all Canadians.

the way I see it the liberals created this frackin thing called the NVC and the TORIES implemented it and are actively defending it ore at least the buyout part as they defended the SISIP clawback. for these reasons neither will get my vote until the buyout ends. Mulcair says he will end the buyout and the CPP clawback. is he lying??? maybe. have they as a government EVER bent us over ??? NO!!! probably because they never got a chance. but here is the fact that at least to me . two parties have fracked us in the past thus more likely to frack us in the future so im going to try the unknown third party. ya its a big roll of the dice bet heck at this point im willing to take a little on faith.

and one point I feel I have to add.

if you voted fore those two parties time and again in the past and got fracked. then you plan on voting for them hoping,well not fore anything good of course,but just hoping you don't get fracked again.

well that's doing the same thing over and over again hoping fore a different result.

by definition ( at least according to Einstein ) that's insanity.

the question is. HOW INSANE ARE YOU?????

always question authority

propat

Rex come on it's standard operating procedure for "any" branch of the government that needs more funds for pay, allowances etc. to send a memo to cabinet.

If Harper has a centric minded attitude explain how the Senate scandal got out of hand?

Let's remember it's not Harper that put this cluster called the NVC into play it was the Liberals under Paul Martin.  The same Paul Martin who gutted the military in the 90's when he was Minister of Finance for Chretien.

If everyone thinks getting rid of Harper and putting Mulcair or Trudeau in charge is going to make life easier for veterans and benefits give your heads a shake.

Governments have been bending veterans over since 1919.  We fight for them to protect our democratic society and they fight to screw veterans out of every benefit they can.  It's the law of government.

Just this past weekend there was an editorial in the Sun that VAC has the highest sick days of all gov't departments...24.3 days a year!  And the op-ed ended with stepping lightly on taking away more benefits from bureaucrats.

Honestly, if this has made its way to the TB, it is pretty much a done deal, since VAC would not have requested the funds without permission from the Minister, who in turn would not have given permission without the go ahead from Harper. We all know Harper runs a very centric minded government, and nothing happens without approval from the PMO, so any and all "requests for funds" are merely for show.

Thanks meteck.

UPDATE. talked with ombudmans office today..veterans affairs has sent something off to the treasury board for their viewing pleasure..they expect a response on the matter in the near future. still no concrete anything suggesting its a done deal or that veterans affairs is on our side or the treasury board for that matter..stay tuned..