DEC and CIAS

Thanks all.

Gunner

great info.thanks

Gunner8, what determines your CIA grade level is the regulation/policy for the CIA (the bastards removed the links to the old CIA policy already so i have cut and pasted the grade levels from my copy this applies to the CIA not the new APSC).


From the old CIA policy

Extent of Impairment and Career Impact

29. A Veteran’s “years left to serve” plus the Veteran’s age at release, cannot exceed 60.0, which is the compulsory retirement age for CAF members. “Years left to serve” is the lesser of the subtraction of the Veteran’s years served in the CAF from 25.0 years military career or the number of years a Veteran could have served until compulsory retirement age of 60.0.
30. Grade 1: Most severe level of physical, functional and/or mental impairment. To determine that Veterans have this extent of impairment;
a. They must meet at least one of the following criteria:
i. Functionally, these Veterans:
A. require long-term hospitalizations; or
B. are approaching the need for institutionalization or be institutionalized; or
C. require continuous physical assistance of another person with 6 of 7 activities of daily living (ADLs) as defined in paragraph 20.h.; or
D. daily supervision and are not considered safe when left alone.
OR

ii. Physically, these Veterans include those who have:
         A. quadriplegia; or
B. paraplegia; or
C. bilateral upper extremity amputation (at or above wrist); or
D. bilateral lower extremity amputation (at or above the ankle).
OR
ii. Mentally, these Veterans:
A. show obvious signs and behaviour that are influenced by delusions or hallucinations not controlled with psychiatric care and demonstrate gross impairment in communication or judgement i.e. grossly inappropriate, incoherent or mute;  or
   B. require total care and supervision in the home or an institutionalized setting.
OR
b. Earning capacity/years left to serve:
i. These Veterans have been determined to have a DEC, are capable of earning 33.3% or less of their imputed income, and have a value of more than or equal to 15 years left to serve in CAF.

31. Grade 2: Lesser extent of functional, mental and/or physical impairment than those in Grade 1. To determine that Veterans have this extent of impairment.
a. They must meet at least one of the following criteria:
i. Functionally, these Veterans:
A. require the physical assistance of another person with 50% or more of the tasks associated with transferring and ambulation (Mobility); or 4 Self-care activities, as defined in paragraph 20.h.; or
B. take an inordinate amount of time to complete transferring and ambulation (Mobility);
or 4 Self-care activities, as defined in paragraph 20.h.; or
C. have cumulative effects of limitations in most ADLs, as defined in paragraph 19.h., that equal i. or ii. above; or
D. requires daily supervision and is considered safe when left alone for very short periods of time, such as 2 to 3 hours during the day, or 5 to 6 hours overnight.
OR

ii. Physically, these Veterans include those who have: A. a complete and permanent loss of vision; or
B. irrecoverable loss of use of an upper and lower limb; or
C. a single upper or lower limb amputation at the hip or shoulder (no viable stump); or
D. double limb amputations, i.e. at or above the ankle for the lower extremity and at or above the wrist for the involved upper extremity (viable stump).
OR
iii. Mentally, these Veterans include those who:
A. suffer from a psychiatric condition with persistent symptoms of extreme impairment of one’s ability to think clearly, respond emotionally, communicate effectively, understand reality and behave appropriately. There is overt evidence of the disease, chronic psychotic illness; or
B. suffer from a psychiatric condition which require long periods of inpatient hospital care or a combination of inpatient hospital care and outpatient care (greater than 8 weeks, cumulative, within a 6 month period); e.g. a full time day program; or
C. require recurrent hospitalization, i.e. greater than 3 times per year, without recovery.
                 OR
         b. Earning capacity/years left to serve:
i. These Veterans have been determined to have a DEC, are capable of earning 33.4% to 66.6%
of their imputed income, and have a value of at least 6 years left to serve in CAF; or
ii. These Veterans have been determined to have a DEC, are capable of earning 33.3% or less of their imputed income and have a value between 6 to 14 years left to serve in CAF.

32. Grade 3: Lesser extent of functional, mental and/or physical impairment than those in Grade 2. To determine that Veterans have this extent of impairment;
a. They must meet at least one of the following criteria:
i. Functionally, these Veterans:
A. require the physical assistance of another person with 50% or more of the tasks associated with transferring or ambulation (Mobility); or 2 Self-Care activities, as defined in paragraph 19.h.; or
B. take an inordinate amount of time to complete transferring or ambulation (Mobility); or
2 Self-care activities, as defined in paragraph 19.h.; or
C. have an inordinate frequency in how often 2 Self-care activities are completed daily; or
D. have cumulative effects of limitations in most ADLs, as defined in paragraph 19.h., that equal i., ii. or iii. above; or
E. require supervision on at least a twice per week basis for at least one hour per visit, and is considered safe when left alone for longer periods of time.
                        OR

ii. Physically, these Veterans include those who have: A. a total and permanent loss of hearing; or
B. a total and permanent loss of speech; or
C. a single upper extremity amputation at or above the elbow; or
D. a single lower amputation at or above the knee; or
E. irrecoverable loss of use of a limb.
OR
           iii.            Mentally:
A. these Veterans suffer from severe and frequent symptoms of moderate to extreme impairment of one’s ability to think clearly, respond emotionally, communicate effectively, understand reality and behave appropriately causing considerable distress; or
B. these Veterans suffer from persistent depressive and anxiety symptoms causing persistent distress requiring chronic use (greater than 2 years) of medication and psychiatric care with no period of sustained recovery and all recreational and social activities are abandoned.
OR
b. Earning capacity/years left to serve:
i. These Veterans are capable of earning 66.7% or more of their imputed income; or
ii. These Veterans have a value less than or equal to 5 years left to serve in CAF.








Cheers

45jim, The bottom line is that you have to meet the eligibility requirements for the CIA benefit to receive it. Many of us veterans were deemed TPI/DEC but were still unable to get the PIA/CIA benefit because we didn’t meet there definition of permanent and severe impairment, so in my case when the PIA supplement came out in 2011 i thought great i meet that criteria being TPI/DEC so i must be able to now get the PIA i was wrong i would still not have the benefit or supplement today if they didn’t expand the definition in 2014. its still a very restrictive benefit though even as the new APSC and of course with the APSC being deemed DEC is basically completely meaningless now that the supplement is gone and time served/age was removed from grade levels.


Definition in Regulation
As per section 40 of the CFMVRCR, a permanent and severe impairment is:
an amputation at or above the elbow or the knee;
the amputation of more than one upper or lower limb at any level;
a total and permanent loss of the use of a limb;
a total and permanent loss of vision, hearing or speech;
a severe and permanent psychiatric condition;
a severe and permanent limitation in mobility or self-care;
a permanent requirement for supervision.







   
Definition in CIA Policy
For the purposes of this policy the following definitions apply:
“Permanent” means that the impairment or requirement is expected to persist indefinitely despite treatment or interventions. With respect to the impairment, although the signs and symptoms may wax and wane over time; further recovery is not anticipated.

“Permanent and severe impairment” is defined as any one of the following:
a. An amputation, or loss by physical separation, of a limb at or above the elbow or the knee; or
b. Two or more amputations of limbs at or above the ankle, or at or above the wrist; or
c. The permanent loss of use of a limb such as may result from a permanent paralysis of an arm or a leg to the extent that it is essentially useless for any practicable purposes in carrying out activities of daily living. Consideration should also be given to severe amputations that contribute to the loss of use of a limb at any level; or
d. Legal blindness which is defined by the Canadian National Institute for the Blind as worse than or equal to 20/200 with best correction in the better eye or a visual field extent of less than 20 degrees in diameter; or
e. A loss of hearing of at least 300 Decibel Sum Hearing Loss (DSHL) over four frequencies in both ears;
or
f. A loss of speech such that the Veteran’s audible communication has been reduced to a level insufficient to meet needs of everyday speech and conversation; or
g. A psychiatric condition, diagnosed according to the most recent version of the Diagnostic Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, that presents at least once per week symptoms of considerable impairment of a Veteran’s functioning in the areas of thought and cognition; emotion, behaviour and coping; activities of daily living; and/or treatment needs; or
h. This paragraph defines severe and permanent limitations caused through Activities of Daily Living (ADLs) – specifically Mobility and Self-Care activities. For the purposes of this policy, Mobility is being looked at as a separate ADL from Self-Care to ensure that it is adequately evaluated. This recognizes that impairment in Mobility can cause disproportionate impacts on employment.






Cheers

johnny211 wrote:45jim - Reading the new APSC policy I think they have removed the amount of yrs served, that was in the old CIAS policy. Unless I’m missing it. It seemed to be unfair, as what does time in, have to do with injuries. Bigrex May have some insight in this. Johnny Out,,VVV...

That’s the way I read it as well. To me, it reads that APSC is an additional amount above and beyond the PSC, to compensate you if your disabilities extremely affect your ability to function in a civilian environment.

45jim - Reading the new APSC policy I think they have removed the amount of yrs served, that was in the old CIAS policy. Unless I’m missing it. It seemed to be unfair, as what does time in, have to do with injuries. Bigrex May have some insight in this. Johnny Out,,VVV...

Ppclicaper.

There is a long history of CIA, it came from the pension act where it was originally Exceptional Incapacity Allowance (EIA) with five levels, with a separate designation being Totally and Permanently Impaired (TPI) where an additional supplement was paid. Under the NVC it became PIA and then CIA and was taxable because it was focused on the economic loss of income because of injury as in a shortened career due to a medical release. TPI became DEC and it also became taxable as it was to offset the economic loss once you were determined not to be able to earn 66 2/3% of your pre-release salary.

The issue is that normally CIA is the first stop, you get approved for that benefit first and if you are also deemed DEC your CIA level may be adjusted based on time served and then you will be eligible for the CIA Supplement. Mine just didn't go that way.

Career impact allowance is graded based on time served and the severity of your injury resulting in the inability to finish your career based off 25 years. Grades are based off those calculations. While DEC is based only off the severity of your injury. Although confusing. Being DEC after a longer career , you could still be ineligible for CIA CIAS. Am new , just trying to help with how I interpreted the programs etc in my situation even with a high disability %. I would never see grade 1 due to time served.

What exactly determines your CIA level? I get CIA level 3, but since then I’ve been deemed DEC, so I’m waiting for CIAS, and I also submitted for a cia level increase.


Gunner

Without all the VAC terminology, was medically released with a PA pension and having served the over 10 year less than 20 year recieved a pension after medical release in 2005. I relied very heavily on my CM to guide me through the processes after no contact with vac 2005-2018. The route we took was Rehab, Elb, cia VIP and a DEC designation. After everything was approved. The paperwork CIAS was forwarded and a review of CIA grade As I personally understood it and interpreted it.. DEC designation and a barrier of more than 66% . Factoring in time served looks the same as qualifying for CIA grade 2 in my situation.

I had believed, that last year, they had made being deemed DEC, a qualifying factor, for being granted CIA, because of the following paragraph from the legislation.

"Additional Pain and Suffering Compensation

Eligibility

• 56.6 (1) The Minister may, on application, pay additional pain and suffering compensation to a veteran who suffers from one or more disabilities that are creating a permanent and severe impairment and a barrier to re-establishment in civilian life if the veteran, in respect of each of those disabilities, has been granted a disability award or pain and suffering compensation or a disability pension under the Pension Act."
  

And IMO, the permanent inability to earn a decent living, because of a service related condition, should be considered a qualifying barrier to re-establishment into civilian life.

6608. No on ever said being DEC was a qualifying criteria for CIA. However, there is no question they are linked. CIA was introduced as a modification of a previous benefit to recognize the financial impact of a shortened career or if injuries represent a barrier to post military employment. The DEC designation is a further tool to be used when there is data to show a veteran cannot earn 66 2/3% of their pre-release salary. The legislation supporting CIA allows for an increase in the CIA payment (the CIA supplement) if a DEC is identified. This would seem to suggest that any veteran that has a DEC obviously has a barrier to post military and would qualify for CIA.

That is also the collective answer from VAC who shake their heads at the decision.

CIAS wait time so far has entered week 14. 12-13 weeks at step 3. VAC call Center stated they are processing applications from February 2019 since last week . So hopefully just another 2-4 week wait. Just some info , March 2019 applicants for CIAS to be processed , do not be in a rush there is a lot. Will keep updated for those in the same boat . Applied CIAS 20 feb 2019. Cheers

Bigrex, Being deemed DEC has never been part of the eligibility criteria for the PIA/CIA benefit.




Enhancements to the Career Impact Allowance (formerly known as the Permanent Impairment Allowance)

Q3. Is Veterans Affairs Canada expanding eligibility for the Career Impact Allowance (Permanent Impairment Allowance)?

No. The changes do not affect eligibility to the CIA (PIA). The changes expand access to the higher grade levels of the CIA (PIA).
It is anticipated that some current and future CIA (PIA) recipients may have their grade level increased, and, therefore, receive more compensation as a result of these changes. No Veterans will have their CIA (PIA) grade level decreased as a result of these changes.

https://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/help/faq/career-impact-allowance






Cheers

6608, being deemed DEC, meant that you met the criteria of having a medical condition, that was creating a barrier from integration into the work force. It was a separate set of eligibility criteria, for being granted the CIA, and not just the grade determination. The possible increase, based on that second set of criteria, was for those who had previously been getting CIA, to determine, under which set of criteria, would award a higher grade.