Canadian Soldiers Assistance Team (CSAT) Forum

What is the next course of action after the 1st and 2nd National appeal denial...

Page 1 of 3 1, 2, 3  Next

Go down

What is the next course of action after the 1st and 2nd National appeal denial... Empty Re: What is the next course of action after the 1st and 2nd National appeal denial...

Post by Teentitan on Tue 11 Jun 2019, 11:31

And that is why when you get a doctor to submit a medical report for an appeal ask him/her a direct question that you want included in the report....."Could my career in the military have caused this injury?" If the answer is yes then ask the doctor to make it a definitive answer not an open ended answer which can give the VRAB panel a chance to deny the appeal.

Or this....."Is this illness/injury/arthritis/cataract (etc) I have a side effect from a drug I have to use to fight my injury/illness?" That question is for consequential claims mainly.

Also explain to the doctor that their medical report is going to be judged by non-medically trained people so please use plain language as much as possible.
Teentitan
Teentitan
CSAT Member

Number of posts : 3402
Location : ontario
Registration date : 2008-09-19

Back to top Go down

What is the next course of action after the 1st and 2nd National appeal denial... Empty Re: What is the next course of action after the 1st and 2nd National appeal denial...

Post by Unknown Soldier on Tue 11 Jun 2019, 11:22

Teentitan wrote:Actually VRAB members are nominated by a sitting Member of Parliament.  They write a test and do a verbal interview as part of the appointment procedure.  Their working background is not a factor but they are looking for "Senior Personnel" for the position.  

A doctor, nurse or veteran is rarely nominated but over the last 20+ years I have seen a nurse and a few vets.
yes thanks, I’ve read all the credentials of VRAB members but if you put in an appeal to the 1st and 2nd National appeal board, these members are not impartial but VAC employees, I’m just wondering about their background, when mostly your appeal is about medical issues that a lay person may not fully understand
Unknown Soldier
Unknown Soldier
CSAT Member

Number of posts : 343
Location : MIR
Registration date : 2019-05-15

Back to top Go down

What is the next course of action after the 1st and 2nd National appeal denial... Empty Re: What is the next course of action after the 1st and 2nd National appeal denial...

Post by Teentitan on Tue 11 Jun 2019, 11:02

Actually VRAB members are nominated by a sitting Member of Parliament. They write a test and do a verbal interview as part of the appointment procedure. Their working background is not a factor but they are looking for "Senior Personnel" for the position.

A doctor, nurse or veteran is rarely nominated but over the last 20+ years I have seen a nurse and a few vets.
Teentitan
Teentitan
CSAT Member

Number of posts : 3402
Location : ontario
Registration date : 2008-09-19

Back to top Go down

What is the next course of action after the 1st and 2nd National appeal denial... Empty Re: What is the next course of action after the 1st and 2nd National appeal denial...

Post by Unknown Soldier on Mon 10 Jun 2019, 20:24

propat wrote:I would defiantly have sent all the doc,s in your case . In my case I was able to use the BPA so they collected the required doc,s witch I was able to review . but ya don't assume they will do anything !!!! do a mental exercise .play it out in your head many times . what will they want ? what elce they may ask for ? any possible thing at all. right it all down find it and send it in all at once .

sending more than they need will not hurt you .

propat
this may sound like a stupid question but when a veteran appeals a disability denial VRAB looks at it and since their bios are on line, you can read that none have a medical background. But since BPA cannot touch a DEC appeal and the board is anonymous, I was just wondering what their credentials are, are they nurses,dr s or just a bunch of case managers with nothing else to do that day?
Unknown Soldier
Unknown Soldier
CSAT Member

Number of posts : 343
Location : MIR
Registration date : 2019-05-15

Back to top Go down

What is the next course of action after the 1st and 2nd National appeal denial... Empty Re: What is the next course of action after the 1st and 2nd National appeal denial...

Post by propat on Wed 05 Jun 2019, 07:25

thanks Steelgunner appreciate that buds . was a little disappointed however . really wanted to test the case in court reference punitive damages now being over 100% with no actual money at steak any further case on a denial would be complicated by that fact .oh well at least VRAB eventually got it right .

propat

propat
CSAT Member

Number of posts : 322
Location : nb canada
Registration date : 2017-12-06

Back to top Go down

What is the next course of action after the 1st and 2nd National appeal denial... Empty Re: What is the next course of action after the 1st and 2nd National appeal denial...

Post by Guest on Mon 03 Jun 2019, 21:40

propat wrote:UKS yes its possible just got a letter Friday . won second VRAB appeal .

propat

Congrats Man!!!!!! Well done!!!!

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

What is the next course of action after the 1st and 2nd National appeal denial... Empty Re: What is the next course of action after the 1st and 2nd National appeal denial...

Post by propat on Mon 03 Jun 2019, 12:37

I would defiantly have sent all the doc,s in your case . In my case I was able to use the BPA so they collected the required doc,s witch I was able to review . but ya don't assume they will do anything !!!! do a mental exercise .play it out in your head many times . what will they want ? what elce they may ask for ? any possible thing at all. right it all down find it and send it in all at once .

sending more than they need will not hurt you .

propat

propat
CSAT Member

Number of posts : 322
Location : nb canada
Registration date : 2017-12-06

Back to top Go down

What is the next course of action after the 1st and 2nd National appeal denial... Empty Re: What is the next course of action after the 1st and 2nd National appeal denial...

Post by Unknown Soldier on Mon 03 Jun 2019, 11:43

propat wrote:UKS yes its possible just got a letter Friday . won second VRAB appeal .

propat
okay , now I have at least some hope, I ask you, on my first appeal all I did was open it through the my vac account and sat back, they say you can/could apply in writing, did you.? I mean I’m wondering I should just send them all the documents I’m referring to instead of assuming they have considered all the paperwork involved?
Unknown Soldier
Unknown Soldier
CSAT Member

Number of posts : 343
Location : MIR
Registration date : 2019-05-15

Back to top Go down

What is the next course of action after the 1st and 2nd National appeal denial... Empty Re: What is the next course of action after the 1st and 2nd National appeal denial...

Post by propat on Mon 03 Jun 2019, 11:07

UKS yes its possible just got a letter Friday . won second VRAB appeal .

propat

propat
CSAT Member

Number of posts : 322
Location : nb canada
Registration date : 2017-12-06

Back to top Go down

What is the next course of action after the 1st and 2nd National appeal denial... Empty Re: What is the next course of action after the 1st and 2nd National appeal denial...

Post by Guest on Sun 02 Jun 2019, 17:59

Unknown Soldier wrote:
Teentitan wrote:On a 1st level appeal you present your info to 2 person panel of VRAB members with your BPA.  There are designated places across Canada that the 2 VRAB members go to for the appeal hearing.

A 2nd level appeal is composed of 3 VRAB members in PEI.  The client/veteran can attend but if you live in say BC you have to pay your own way to attend and you are not allowed to speak.  Your 1st level appeal BPA hands over all the information they have to BPA lawyers only in PEI that will represent you.

1st level BPA are usually lawyers putting in their pro-bono time to get their on the job training.  They are supervised by a full time employee of BPA.

2nd level BPA are full time lawyers for the BPA and they represent you and present your appeal info.

I have never gone thru my VAC account for an appeal but I am guessing the same procedure is done as how I mentioned it above.
I’m not sure we are talking about the same thing, after my situation was denied by VAC I was told I had 60 days to file an appeal with the National 1st Level Appeals Unit. I did this on line because BPA cannot get involved, you simply open your complaint using the my vac account, there is no human interaction,and they denied my claim. I was then offered to file an appeal with the 2nd Level appeals Unit,which is the same process. These boards are a separate branch and nothing to do with VRAB, and l have no idea how many members are on it or who they are. Looking over the paperwork VAC is stamped all over it, so in hindsight I’d say that these two boards are not impartial, but are employees of VAC, so no wonder the procedure failed, the wolf is in the hen house.

I am in the process of 2 stage of appeal past two years and no end in sight.
You can review and gain info from past cases both approved or declined.  Try to find a case that you are bringing forward and review the cases.  It might help, but you will gain insight on how VAC works or should I say doesn’t work for the Veteran.  It’s just that I can’t see how they separate the board and lawyers from each other while getting paid from the same department.  There should be a better way to make this work.  2nd appeal, only in PEI and you can’t talk..... hmmmm that would not fly in the real world.  Plain and simple it’s stacked against Veterans.  This why we need big reform changes.  We don’t need new systems from every new GOC party that comes into power.  We just needed the PA system to continue with improvements decided with Real Veterans not that meeting of a group of people that they think they no what’s good for a Veteran.  

https://www.canlii.org/en/ca/cavrab/

Check out link, it’s every decision the board has made.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

What is the next course of action after the 1st and 2nd National appeal denial... Empty Re: What is the next course of action after the 1st and 2nd National appeal denial...

Post by Guest on Sat 01 Jun 2019, 14:18

MVA minister of Veteran Affairs. You may want to message Supremedebater on here and tell him what you are dealing with. He has helped others with difficult situations.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

What is the next course of action after the 1st and 2nd National appeal denial... Empty Re: What is the next course of action after the 1st and 2nd National appeal denial...

Post by Unknown Soldier on Sat 01 Jun 2019, 11:38

Home wrote:It is so rare to win. If I was in your shoes and really wanted to succeed in this challenge, I would take it to the Media, the Ombudsman and then to the MVA. Also, have someone in here review your wording and approach. Good luck.

what is MVA.?
Unknown Soldier
Unknown Soldier
CSAT Member

Number of posts : 343
Location : MIR
Registration date : 2019-05-15

Back to top Go down

What is the next course of action after the 1st and 2nd National appeal denial... Empty Re: What is the next course of action after the 1st and 2nd National appeal denial...

Post by Guest on Sat 01 Jun 2019, 11:27

It is so rare to win. If I was in your shoes and really wanted to succeed in this challenge, I would take it to the Media, the Ombudsman and then to the MVA. Also, have someone in here review your wording and approach. Good luck.


Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

What is the next course of action after the 1st and 2nd National appeal denial... Empty Re: What is the next course of action after the 1st and 2nd National appeal denial...

Post by Unknown Soldier on Sat 01 Jun 2019, 08:19

By the Bay wrote:
Unknown Soldier wrote:
Teentitan wrote:On a 1st level appeal you present your info to 2 person panel of VRAB members with your BPA.  There are designated places across Canada that the 2 VRAB members go to for the appeal hearing.

A 2nd level appeal is composed of 3 VRAB members in PEI.  The client/veteran can attend but if you live in say BC you have to pay your own way to attend and you are not allowed to speak.  Your 1st level appeal BPA hands over all the information they have to BPA lawyers only in PEI that will represent you.

1st level BPA are usually lawyers putting in their pro-bono time to get their on the job training.  They are supervised by a full time employee of BPA.

2nd level BPA are full time lawyers for the BPA and they represent you and present your appeal info.

I have never gone thru my VAC account for an appeal but I am guessing the same procedure is done as how I mentioned it above.
I’m not sure we are talking about the same thing, after my situation was denied by VAC I was told I had 60 days to file an appeal with the National 1st Level Appeals Unit. I did this on line because BPA cannot get involved, you simply open your complaint using the my vac account, there is no human interaction,and they denied my claim. I was then offered to file an appeal with the 2nd Level appeals Unit,which is the same process. These boards are a separate branch and nothing to do with VRAB, and l have no idea how many members are on it or who they are. Looking over the paperwork VAC is stamped all over it, so in hindsight I’d say that these two boards are not impartial, but are employees of VAC, so no wonder the procedure failed, the wolf is in the hen house.

Hi Unknown Soldier,

Yes, the 1st and 2nd Level Appeals Unit is decided by VAC employees and not by any 3rd party board members. This VAC "specialized" unit has adjudicators and managers who are more educated on certain benefits and policies.

For example, let's say a veteran is in the process of appealing his or her CIA/CIAS decision. It does not go through the VRAB, it goes through the VAC in-house appeals process. 1st Level Appeals Unit is staffed by senior adjudicators who will review the veteran's CIA/CIAS application. The appealed CIA/CIAS application is reviewed by only one adjudicator who decides the outcome based on their own interpretation of the CIA/CIAS Policy.
If the veterans was still unhappy with the outcome decision from the 1st Level Appeals Adjudicator, the Veteran's 2nd Level Appeal will be reviewed by a Manager in the Policy and Research Division. Again, no board members just a VAC staffer's who makes the final decision.

The OVO can review your case and submit a request for the Minister to review the error's in your case but that is only if the OVO found errors regarding the outcome of your appeals. My uncle has gone through this process and unfortunately the Minister/VAC head honchos agreed with VAC Appeals Unit ruling to remain at a PIA/CIA level 2. Furthermore, according to the OVO's conversation with my uncle, it was mentioned that the Minister is not obligated to review any file that has been denied by VAC unless it was a blatant disregard of the CIA/CIAS policy.

Cheers,
By the Bay
well knowing all that it doesn’t give me much hope , however are there any cases here of anyone getting an appeal overturned by a 1st or 2nd appeal board.? Unlikely, since their pay check is all coming from the same place, but I will contact the ombudsman anyway as I’ve come too far to stop now.thanks for the input.
Unknown Soldier
Unknown Soldier
CSAT Member

Number of posts : 343
Location : MIR
Registration date : 2019-05-15

Back to top Go down

What is the next course of action after the 1st and 2nd National appeal denial... Empty Re: What is the next course of action after the 1st and 2nd National appeal denial...

Post by By the Bay on Sat 01 Jun 2019, 02:41

Unknown Soldier wrote:
Teentitan wrote:On a 1st level appeal you present your info to 2 person panel of VRAB members with your BPA.  There are designated places across Canada that the 2 VRAB members go to for the appeal hearing.

A 2nd level appeal is composed of 3 VRAB members in PEI.  The client/veteran can attend but if you live in say BC you have to pay your own way to attend and you are not allowed to speak.  Your 1st level appeal BPA hands over all the information they have to BPA lawyers only in PEI that will represent you.

1st level BPA are usually lawyers putting in their pro-bono time to get their on the job training.  They are supervised by a full time employee of BPA.

2nd level BPA are full time lawyers for the BPA and they represent you and present your appeal info.

I have never gone thru my VAC account for an appeal but I am guessing the same procedure is done as how I mentioned it above.
I’m not sure we are talking about the same thing, after my situation was denied by VAC I was told I had 60 days to file an appeal with the National 1st Level Appeals Unit. I did this on line because BPA cannot get involved, you simply open your complaint using the my vac account, there is no human interaction,and they denied my claim. I was then offered to file an appeal with the 2nd Level appeals Unit,which is the same process. These boards are a separate branch and nothing to do with VRAB, and l have no idea how many members are on it or who they are. Looking over the paperwork VAC is stamped all over it, so in hindsight I’d say that these two boards are not impartial, but are employees of VAC, so no wonder the procedure failed, the wolf is in the hen house.

Hi Unknown Soldier,

Yes, the 1st and 2nd Level Appeals Unit is decided by VAC employees and not by any 3rd party board members. This VAC "specialized" unit has adjudicators and managers who are more educated on certain benefits and policies.

For example, let's say a veteran is in the process of appealing his or her CIA/CIAS decision. It does not go through the VRAB, it goes through the VAC in-house appeals process. 1st Level Appeals Unit is staffed by senior adjudicators who will review the veteran's CIA/CIAS application. The appealed CIA/CIAS application is reviewed by only one adjudicator who decides the outcome based on their own interpretation of the CIA/CIAS Policy.
If the veterans was still unhappy with the outcome decision from the 1st Level Appeals Adjudicator, the Veteran's 2nd Level Appeal will be reviewed by a Manager in the Policy and Research Division. Again, no board members just a VAC staffer's who makes the final decision.

The OVO can review your case and submit a request for the Minister to review the error's in your case but that is only if the OVO found errors regarding the outcome of your appeals. My uncle has gone through this process and unfortunately the Minister/VAC head honchos agreed with VAC Appeals Unit ruling to remain at a PIA/CIA level 2. Furthermore, according to the OVO's conversation with my uncle, it was mentioned that the Minister is not obligated to review any file that has been denied by VAC unless it was a blatant disregard of the CIA/CIAS policy.

Cheers,
By the Bay
By the Bay
By the Bay
CSAT Member

Number of posts : 313
Location : Ottawa, Ontario
Registration date : 2013-03-06

Back to top Go down

What is the next course of action after the 1st and 2nd National appeal denial... Empty Re: What is the next course of action after the 1st and 2nd National appeal denial...

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 1 of 3 1, 2, 3  Next

Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum