Re: Here’s a great question l saw asked somewhere else with no real answer...

by **bigrex** Tue 07 Jul 2020, 19:29

First of all Crockett, I would request an assessment by an Occupational Therapist, NOT a physiotherapist. They are totally different fields..

physiotherapy

(Medicine) the therapeutic use of physical agents or means, such as massage, exercises, etc. Also called: physical therapy, physio (informal) or physiatrics

occupational therapy

: therapy based on engagement in meaningful activities of daily life (such as self-care skills, education, work, or social interaction) especially to enable or encourage participation in such activities despite impairments or limitations in physical or mental functioning

"The word “occupational” in occupational therapy can be misleading. This profession is not about vocational counseling or work training. Occupational therapists are health care professionals who help people to resume or maintain participation in a variety of tasks – their jobs, leisure and social activities, getting around, caring for themselves and their home, and much more.

Occupational therapists often work on a team with physiotherapists, but the two roles are distinct. Physiotherapists help people restore physical function; occupational therapists focus on how that function affects the ability to do the things that are important to them".

by Unknown Soldier Tue 07 Jul 2020, 10:11

Crockett wrote:Believe me I was all over MOD I called them every couple of weeks for updates.

l just don’t understand the phrase “ they sat on it”, just as every veteran is assigned a CM , doesn’t MOD prescribe you one as well.?, once the vocational rehabilitation assessments are done, the occupational therapist writes their prognosis as does the psychologist. That would take 6 weeks max I’m guessing, these reports are then forwarded to your MOD representative who then compiles the 2 into a singular report provided to your CM/vac. That also should be 6 weeks max. I’m just trying to figure out where the breakdown in communication could have happened?This was pre covid slow down correct?

by Crockett Tue 07 Jul 2020, 09:32

Believe me I was all over MOD I called them every couple of weeks for updates.

by Unknown Soldier Tue 07 Jul 2020, 09:27

Crockett wrote:Last year I had my Functional Capacity evaluation and was told I should not work full time by both my doctor and the physiotherapist. Instead of submitting my documentation, March of dimes sat on it for a year and sent me for a new Functional Evaluation to a different Physiotherapist who now believes I can go back to work full time, even though my doctor disagrees. So I sat at home doing nothing for a full year, waiting, I'm not complaining about being paid as I have been paid this whole time, however, I've now lost a year waiting. I did a bunch of research when this started just to see if I could find a job that was 66.6% of my old salary and there was nothing part time that I could find. Last year there was a solid case for Dec to be approved but this year the results are conflicting, so I'm pretty sure the result won't be in my favor. On top of all this, it seems that once the decision is made the rehab program is complete, therefore, I won't even receive help with finding work after(at least this is what was suggested, not sure if it is true).

Anyway going back to the subject line I wrote. The new physiotherapist I had do the test, told me that no one could determine hours of work just limitations, so he would never suggest part time or full time just that I can return to work. That is the way Workman's Compensation works, it's a fill in until you can go back to your previous job, not an assessment on whether you can go back to work or not. He knew so little, about the rehab program, he actually thought this assessment was to determine if I could go back into the Military.

As usual the system is wrought with inconsistencies, from the veterans I talked to similar and yet different. In their cases , the physical portion of the MOD did list actual hours that could be worked, I. E. “ veteran could do work with kneeling for 4 hrs a day” etc. , and yes, the occupational therapists are contracted out for some the veteran is their e first case, others say they do “ lots” but are still unclear about the whole vocational rehab process. In your case, l would have been all over MOD after the tests were done looking for updates all year. You do raise an interesting question though, in the fact that the veteran is expected to find a job that pays 66% of their previous military pay. Let’s say the veteran used to make $50000 a year in the army, so that 66% job he needs to find pays approx. $37000 a year, is this before taxes or after .? Because if it’s before taxes you’re making chunk change, further, if the MOD says “ veteran can work 6 hrs a day” that’s not even full time, you would have to be making quite a bit an hour to add up to 66% of your previous pay, especially untrained.The biggest problem I’m seeing in it all are the ones who MOD says “ cannot work” based on the results of 1 or both tests, but VAC decides “ yes, he can” and removes the veteran from Income Replacement Benfit, because they are no longer considered on rehabilitation.

by Crockett Tue 07 Jul 2020, 04:40

Last year I had my Functional Capacity evaluation and was told I should not work full time by both my doctor and the physiotherapist. Instead of submitting my documentation, March of dimes sat on it for a year and sent me for a new Functional Evaluation to a different Physiotherapist who now believes I can go back to work full time, even though my doctor disagrees. So I sat at home doing nothing for a full year, waiting, I'm not complaining about being paid as I have been paid this whole time, however, I've now lost a year waiting. I did a bunch of research when this started just to see if I could find a job that was 66.6% of my old salary and there was nothing part time that I could find. Last year there was a solid case for Dec to be approved but this year the results are conflicting, so I'm pretty sure the result won't be in my favor. On top of all this, it seems that once the decision is made the rehab program is complete, therefore, I won't even receive help with finding work after(at least this is what was suggested, not sure if it is true).

Anyway going back to the subject line I wrote. The new physiotherapist I had do the test, told me that no one could determine hours of work just limitations, so he would never suggest part time or full time just that I can return to work. That is the way Workman's Compensation works, it's a fill in until you can go back to your previous job, not an assessment on whether you can go back to work or not. He knew so little, about the rehab program, he actually thought this assessment was to determine if I could go back into the Military.

by Unknown Soldier Mon 29 Jun 2020, 23:55

bigrex wrote:Johnny, the CM might still be able to recommend DEC, but when the approvals were done in the local office, your CM could act as your advocate. And if they were good, they were able to sway things in your favour. But now your file simply goes to some faceless bureaucrats, out west somewhere, so you no longer have anybody in the room, speaking on your behalf, when the decisions are being made.

that might be a good thing if the veterans CM hates them lol, but yes, there is one central DEC board in Wpg handing all claims now...I’m sure that’s doing wonders for the backLog.

by Unknown Soldier Mon 29 Jun 2020, 23:53

johnny211 wrote:Bigrex - I find it odd that the CM would not have input into the DEC board. Looks like
Things have changed. There was a period 4-5 yrs ago, where CM,s could recommend TPI.
When I was going thru the process 6 yrs ago, my CM actually sat in my pscy appt, with my
Permission. She was told by my pscy I could never rtn to work. It’s unfortunate that CM don’t
Have as much input. I wonder who is on their DEC board. Johnny out,,VVV

yes l read a report how a few years back VAC had given the power to grant DEC to the CM ‘s. I don’t know how long that lasted but at some point VAC feared they had created a monster and that too many so-so injured veterans were “ sliding through the cracks “, so VAC then took that power away, l think in IMO , that is why VAC is so hard on DEC board veterans now, it’s like they are trying to make up for lost ground, and taking it out on the most injured of vets.

by **bigrex** Mon 29 Jun 2020, 16:10

Johnny, the CM might still be able to recommend DEC, but when the approvals were done in the local office, your CM could act as your advocate. And if they were good, they were able to sway things in your favour. But now your file simply goes to some faceless bureaucrats, out west somewhere, so you no longer have anybody in the room, speaking on your behalf, when the decisions are being made.

by EZRider Mon 29 Jun 2020, 11:49

[/quote]
so your still just waiting for the results after months, someone else said they were at the 10 month mark for a dec decision so it's a long haul like a 2 year wait on a disability claim to see if it's even positive or negative. Wow. Are you currently on IRB, as long as VAC leaves you on it til the outcome of your DEC board, that's not too bad. But if the board rules against you AND they cancel your IRB too, that's up a creek without a paddle.[/quote]

Yes waiting but still on IRB which has been a huge relief financially. My CM told me IRB is not meant for long term, true enough I suppose as a DEC decision is supposed to be made prior to completion of a Rehab plan. COVID restrictions hit in the middle of my treatments so went virtual, not as effective but did as best we could. My CM is working from home as I imagine most are so expect delays...watch and shoot!

by johnny211 Mon 29 Jun 2020, 07:04

Bigrex - I find it odd that the CM would not have input into the DEC board. Looks like
Things have changed. There was a period 4-5 yrs ago, where CM,s could recommend TPI.
When I was going thru the process 6 yrs ago, my CM actually sat in my pscy appt, with my
Permission. She was told by my pscy I could never rtn to work. It’s unfortunate that CM don’t
Have as much input. I wonder who is on their DEC board. Johnny out,,VVV

by **bigrex** Sun 28 Jun 2020, 22:24

It's not like SISIP. Going back to school, is only one aspect of the rehab program. It could also include certain treatment programs, psycho-social programs, psychologists, physio, massage, chiropractors, etc.basically anything that they deem may improve your quality of life, as long as its in relation to an approved medical condition.

"Assessment of needs

10 (1) The Minister shall,

(a) on approving an application made under section 8, assess the veteran’s medical rehabilitation, psycho-social rehabilitation and vocational rehabilitation needs; and

(b) on approving an application made under section 9, assess the veteran’s medical rehabilitation and psycho-social rehabilitation needs.

Marginal note:Rehabilitation plan

(2) The Minister may develop and implement a rehabilitation plan to address the rehabilitation needs that are identified in the assessment.

Marginal note:Limitation

(3) The only physical and mental health problems that may be addressed in the rehabilitation plan are

(a) in the case of a veteran for whom an application made under section 8 was approved, a physical or a mental health problem resulting primarily from service in the Canadian Forces that is creating a barrier to re-establishment in civilian life; or

(b) in the case of a veteran for whom an application made under section 9 was approved, the physical or mental health problem for which the veteran was released."

But if the new board is denying claims, that is problematic. And it's something that I voiced concerns about when it was being created. Since your CM is no longer involved, there is no longer any personal knowledge of what the Veteran has endured. They are reduced to a name and number on a sheet of paper. , which contravenes the Veterans bill of rights.

"You have the right to:

Be treated with respect, dignity, fairness and courtesy.
Take part in discussions that involve you and your family.
Have someone with you for support when you deal with Veterans Affairs.
Receive clear, easy-to-understand information about our programs and services, in English or French, as set out in the Official Languages Act.
Have your privacy protected as set out in the Privacy Act.
Receive benefits and services as set out in our published service standards and to know your appeal rights."

by Unknown Soldier Sun 28 Jun 2020, 21:42

bigrex wrote:Realistically, the answer is yes, but it's highly unlikely, because of the relatively high earning capacity under the DEC program (up to 66.6% of per-release salary), The board would have to completely disregard the assessment, and say that the Veteran has absolutely no employment restrictions. So it could still happen. But even if the board denies your DEC claim, as long as you remain on the rehab program, even if its just paying for weekly massage therapy, the IRB will not be cancelled. Giving you time to appeal the denial.

well l wouldn’t say unlikely because more than one vet is saying they were written off by March of dimes but not by the dec. board, l have heard in the past that if it’s only psych holding a veteran back , that the board often ignores it and states the veteran can still work , 4,6,8 hours in an isolated job away from the public etc. But these vets have not said that they were on IRB prior, everyone s situation is different and some are saying they went right to a dec board, no IRB , no March of dimes, it’s hard to tell. But l thought if VAC “ closes” a vets file as a result of what the March of dimes assessments say, that would mean the vet loses his IRB as well, because I thought the purpose of Voc rehab was to get the veteran back into the work place, but if that can’t happen, then.?

by **bigrex** Sun 28 Jun 2020, 21:03

Realistically, the answer is yes, but it's highly unlikely, because of the relatively high earning capacity under the DEC program (up to 66.6% of per-release salary), The board would have to completely disregard the assessment, and say that the Veteran has absolutely no employment restrictions. So it could still happen. But even if the board denies your DEC claim, as long as you remain on the rehab program, even if its just paying for weekly massage therapy, the IRB will not be cancelled. Giving you time to appeal the denial.

by Unknown Soldier Sun 28 Jun 2020, 20:31

EZRider wrote:
Unknown Soldier wrote:Lately a lot of veterans are saying the completed these March of Dimes vocational rehabilitation assessments only yo have the occupational therapist and/or the psychologist state that the vet is not recommended to return to the workplace, ever. These reports then went before a DEC board...and the board said “ we disagree with the findings”. None of the veterans said whether or not they were on IRB, but if a vet was, and was denied DEC and was determined “ untrainable”, by MoD, does that mean they now lose their IRB, because they will no longer stay in rehabilitation? Obviously physio and psycho sessions would still be paid for, but l think IRB is 66.5% of whatever the veteran was making upon military release. That is a huge monetary hole, not to mention the veteran is too injured by MoD standards ( if not VAC) to even get a job to fill that financial gap. Has this happened to anyone ?

I’ll let ya know, I completed the testing and follow up appts a few months ago, waiting for the report. I can’t work full time and can’t make the threshold salary PT so not sure where that leaves me.

so your still just waiting for the results after months, someone else said they were at the 10 month mark for a dec decision so it's a long haul like a 2 year wait on a disability claim to see if it's even positive or negative. Wow. Are you currently on IRB, as long as VAC leaves you on it til the outcome of your DEC board, that's not too bad. But if the board rules against you AND they cancel your IRB too, that's up a creek without a paddle.

by EZRider Sun 28 Jun 2020, 16:59

Unknown Soldier wrote:Lately a lot of veterans are saying the completed these March of Dimes vocational rehabilitation assessments only yo have the occupational therapist and/or the psychologist state that the vet is not recommended to return to the workplace, ever. These reports then went before a DEC board...and the board said “ we disagree with the findings”. None of the veterans said whether or not they were on IRB, but if a vet was, and was denied DEC and was determined “ untrainable”, by MoD, does that mean they now lose their IRB, because they will no longer stay in rehabilitation? Obviously physio and psycho sessions would still be paid for, but l think IRB is 66.5% of whatever the veteran was making upon military release. That is a huge monetary hole, not to mention the veteran is too injured by MoD standards ( if not VAC) to even get a job to fill that financial gap. Has this happened to anyone ?

I’ll let ya know, I completed the testing and follow up appts a few months ago, waiting for the report. I can’t work full time and can’t make the threshold salary PT so not sure where that leaves me.

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