Jan 30th - 2015 - is the expected date for MVA O'Toole to respond to recommendations

guys I really don't think there is an issue here with the amounts for each ore even accessibility .

here is the thing

if you are on the PA and don't have 100% put in for the PIA you are entitled . not an issue.

as for the amount no need to have the PIA supplement attached to EIA .

ya I know that would be nice but here me out .

except for the very old vets I personally haven't met any vets getting EIA above grade 3.
and only one below . again just my experience .

grade 3 is about $940.06 tax free .

now again just my experience most on PIA don't get above grade 3 . actually no one I know witch is BS.

that's $584.66 taxed plus $1,074.93 taxed for supplement .

different taxes for different provinces ya I get that but all in all not a big difference between the two on face value but there is positive residual effects of having non taxable income so I think they are equal IN GENERAL .

propat

You are correct, but the easiest solution for that, is to change the criteria for the PIA supp, so that those getting EIA can qualify as well. I believe that solution has already been discussed in one of the reports on the NVC. The PIA amounts may be higher than listed for the EIA, but the fact that the EIA is tax free, makes up for the difference, IMO.

But once your on EIA you can't apply for PIA

here ya jonny big time sleep problems here . was recommended by the doctor to take melatonin on top of everything elce . it helps a little but is not covered . tried the paperwork route to request it be covered but that was a no go .

propat

Bigrex and Jeffery good points on the little or big $ things we buy that are not covered. I for one like taking a natural drug, Curcumin for my hip/bursitis disability. It works awesome. But of course DVA will not pay for it, as it has to have a drug DIN #. Also i take some natural sleeping pills, and again not covered. Not sure if DVA will ever go down the natural remedy side.

I'm with you Propat.

The PA pension is worth fighting for. The MVA would have us believe that the PA was limited in scope. The PA however is an ACT. The pension piece does not stand alone. The New PensionAct is what could have simply been replaced to the changing times. However. What we have is The UnPensionAct (NVC).

Bigrex. I have another disadvantage to add to your list on disability. Mortgage life and critical illness insurance. I have neither due to severe PTSD. Of course loss of critical illness insurance on any loan or mortgage while on LTD is a sure fire way to non qualify. But did you know that low testosterone due to PTSD will land you in the same direction? Yup. And it has for me.

ya im glad im on the PA as it is far superior than the NVC .

yup the NVC guys can apply for ELB , PIA and supplement .

but so can PA guys I know this because I have applied for and receive them all.

so again there is still only one real difference between them .

THE BUYOUT !!!!

propat

Personally, I think most of the benefits included in the NVC are good, other than the lump sum. The ELB covers the economic losses associated with severe disability. The PIA is far better than the EIA, even if taxable, since you do not have to be rated at 100% to be approved. The SRB, compensates those who have been injured the longest, and unable to continue building their pensions. So the only area that is lacking, is the ideology that monthly compensation for pain and suffering and compensation for economic losses, are the same thing. WCCB realize the differences, and provide monthly payments for both. The Courts realize the difference, as demonstrated by the SISIP lawsuit.

Just the fact of being severely disabled, adds costs that many of us could otherwise avoid. Like for example, I had to buy a new dishwasher, but I had to pay a plumber to come in and install it for me. This is something that I could and would have done myself if I wasn't disable. So that was an extra $150.00 out of my pocket, that a non-disabled person wouldn't need to pay if they wanted. Another example is the type of vehicle that I need to drive. I cannot buy a cheap sub compact that is cheap on gas, because I need something that is not too low to the ground, and is big enough to hold my family AND my walker (or my scooter) once I get the lift installed. I'm sure everyone on here can think of some example of when they had to spend additional money for something that they otherwise would have done themselves, if they weren't disabled, and not covered by the VIP program.

Teen,

Good points but for me in my opinion the NVC including it's shinning star the Lump sum is putting Veterans at a disadvantage over those on the PA system.

I think what they have done here is placed the Veterans into two categories 1 those injured Veterans who can continue to work, and 2 those Veterans who can no longer continue to work due to the severity of conditions.

I think the problem here is that those who can no longer continue to work are not given the choice between the NVC and the PA - they are forced into the NVC along with the Lump sum.  

Yes they can apply for the ELB and the PIA and also receive a Lump sum payment, but as it already has been reported those are not always easy to get, and the ones who do get it, complain of the headaches in being approved, and have to re apply for it at certain times.

I would say it this way, it may hold merits on those who are medically discharged with the ability to continue into the work force, it sure does have it's place if a Veteran was to take a turn for the worse, and could no longer continue to work, but even then it puts a burden on the Veteran to keep in paste with all the rules that comes with it, so I think the PA would still be above the NVC in this case, as the only burden would be in applying for their benefits.

I think if they were to give those who are severely medically released the option between both the PA and the NVC most if not all would jump into the PA system.

That along with the fact that with the PA Veterans get a tax free pension for life rather they can work or not - not to mention the fact that with the PA the Veteran only has to deal with one system, and once they have reached the top, or close to it, they can concentrate on their health - both mentally and physically.

These are just a few reasons why I think the PA is much better than the NVC.

Like I have said many times over, anything that comes from the NVC excluding the Lump sum could have been married into the PA system, many positive changes have been made in the past to the PA, I will go one step further and say personally I think for those Veterans who are completely disabled, just the PA itself without any added changes is far superior than the NVC.

Of course only my opinion.

Teen, I believe the OVO report recommended 90%, but it was still taxable. The HoC committee report requested 85%, tax free, but based on net income. That is what is confusing everyone. How can it be considered tax free if net income has to be calculated. One possible method would be to deduct CFSA and CPP(D) from 100% of pre-release pay, then base the 85% off what was left, instead of making the deductions from the already reduced amount.

Example 1 (current system)

100% CF pay = $5000
ELB Gross = $3750
CFSA = $1500
CPP(D) = $1000
Payable gross ELB = $1250

Example 2 (possible)

100% CF pay = $5000
CFSA = $1500
CPP(D) = $1000
Payable ELB (85% tax free) = $2125

Another possibility, although highly unlikely, would be to pay 85% of the members net income before release, but with no deductions.

Actually Jeff, they are passed onto the veteran, but only if they take the award over x number of years. Basically, the lump sum allows VAC to wash their hands of all but the most severely disabled. Sure, they may technically still be a client, but they will not have deal directly with them, since most of the treatments administration is actually handled by Blue Cross. And after last year, VAC doesn't even maintain control of your file. They are kept by a private company, and VAC has to request them if they need to access it.

Here is something to think about with regards to the ELB and the lump sum.

With regards to the lump sum...it is only unfair to a 'healthy' veteran who is able to work regardless of their injury.

Think of it this way; under the PA a veteran gets a monthly payment regardless of being able to work or not.

Under the NVC the injury is noted a lump sum is awarded and the client goes to work.

But if the client is unable to work then they get ELB and PIA plus the lump sum. As we know ELB is cut off at 65.

What if in the budget ELB and PIA is extended past age 65? This would make the NVC severly disabled client the same as a PA severly disabled client. Wouldn't this give the severly disabled client financial stability? The extra benefits in the NVC would be given to the spouse to improve their education and job for even further financial security.

So if you think about it if ELB is approved past age 65 the real victim in this is the working client who only recieved a lump sum payment. Right? So I feel the lump sum should be eliminated as it diminishes the injury the client got in service to their country. Just something to think about.

As for the percentage of ELB...how they originally came up with 75% is anybodies guess. I will say 100% would be nice but lets be realistic here how many LTD insurance companies pay 100% in Long Term Disability???

85% in my honest opinion, and no I'm not a stooge for the OVO or VAC, is a good "opening" change to improve the financial security for the severly disabled. Improving a veterans financial security for their family is most important and that is what has to be kept in mind going forward.

All political parties have been derilict in their duties to live up to what this charter was deemed when it was first enacted...a Living Charter.

The opposition parties have shown nothing but weakness by not harrassing the governing party to fix the NVC. They should have involved the Senate, the GG and most importantly the press in pressuring the ruling government to fix the NVC. The White Knight that should have been at the front in this charge should have been the Royal Canadian Legion!!

Thank you for posting on this important issue. A chart to view is greatly appreciated, which I believe was submitted to the public by the MVA office, even if it only tells us to keep waiting.. Spring is coming. And for this government it probably feels like it's closer then they would like.

How is it that the year on year increases to the lumpsum are not submitted to the receipients? The PA pension, the PIA/supplement, the ELB, and the CPP-d year on year increases are.

In all fairness. This discrepancy alone is worthy of having the lumpsum viewed as less generous then the PA pension. Soldiers are not investors by trade.

End the buyout now!

In my ptsd fogged brain of this old Rad Op, I cannot understand how the wizards came up with the 75% of your last pay for the ELB. And yes teenitan why 85%, why not 100%?

It would be nice to see some $ announcements put out by O'Toole, but I would not hold my breath on it. VVV,,,

Rex that pic says it all as to why there was no formal announcement on the Standing Committee report.

All the "fixes" VAC could do without budget approval has been going on over the last few months.

I am 99.9% positive next week O'Toole will say there will be more announcements when the budget is tabled.

Of course the biggest budget announcement will be about ELB past age 65 and if there is an increase to the Ombudsmans recommendation of 85%. The recommendation in the actual report is pure bafflegab (bullshyte really)!!! Requests were made by the OVO for the committee to explain their recommendation went into one ear and out the other.

So we are again in a holding pattern.