Re: DEC in the New System 1% Increase

by MikeCeeGB Fri 05 Apr 2019, 19:19

johnny211 wrote: Good day all. I go along with what Bigrex stated. I have been Dec for 5 yrs. Last year I changed my pscy. And also I have not had a CM in 4 yrs. I called Vac to see if I needed a new assessment. I will state I’m 59. They answered back that with my age, combined with my physical and mental conditions, being at 100%, and that I did retraining for a Yr, worked, and it feel apart, that I would not be doing further assessments.
But I think a big thing, is that I continue to do my pscy visits, massage, physcio appts, and prob will for life. If a Dec Vet refuses to do their appts, that gives VAC free rain to cut them off.
So if one is following their treatment, be it for life, I can’t imagine VAC would cut them off. VVV...

To your point, I feel like if any ailment we have that serious enough to be deemed DEC, then we owe it to ourselves to continue treatment, even if it is just maintenance. Thats what I plan to do. I need to avoid making a triumphant return to the gutter. I
know this will be a lifelong endeavour.

by johnny211 Fri 05 Apr 2019, 17:21

Good day all. I go along with what Bigrex stated. I have been Dec for 5 yrs. Last year I changed my pscy. And also I have not had a CM in 4 yrs. I called Vac to see if I needed a new assessment. I will state I’m 59. They answered back that with my age, combined with my physical and mental conditions, being at 100%, and that I did retraining for a Yr, worked, and it feel apart, that I would not be doing further assessments.
But I think a big thing, is that I continue to do my pscy visits, massage, physcio appts, and prob will for life. If a Dec Vet refuses to do their appts, that gives VAC free rain to cut them off.
So if one is following their treatment, be it for life, I can’t imagine VAC would cut them off. VVV...

by MikeCeeGB Fri 05 Apr 2019, 09:37

bigrex wrote:There is always a mechanism to request a review, written into any benefit. But that doesn't mean that they WILL happen, I was deemed DEC in 2012, and have never needed to undergo any reassessment. Maybe if you are on the bubble, where you can work, but it's limited to part time, it may be different, but it's probably on a case bu case basis. I've only had one review for ELB, or CIA. I can't remember, because it was so long ago. So it's not like VAC is knocking down your door, making you prove that you need these benefits, every time you turn around.

Thats promising. They make it so easy to get worked up. You want to educate yourself, but get all worked up over what you read when you get into the weeds....

by **bigrex** Fri 05 Apr 2019, 09:29

There is always a mechanism to request a review, written into any benefit. But that doesn't mean that they WILL happen, I was deemed DEC in 2012, and have never needed to undergo any reassessment. Maybe if you are on the bubble, where you can work, but it's limited to part time, it may be different, but it's probably on a case bu case basis. I've only had one review for ELB, or CIA. I can't remember, because it was so long ago. So it's not like VAC is knocking down your door, making you prove that you need these benefits, every time you turn around.

by Rustytheviking Fri 05 Apr 2019, 08:39

I used to feel bad about all the $ I got with benefits. But then I remember that if I weren’t injured, I’d be a wo at a minimum by now. Only squeaked by 8 years served. No mil pension, my sisip amount starting in 2011 was 2700ish. Nowadays I take what I can get. Also, I am dec but was denied CPPD. Didn’t affect my dec status at all.

by MikeCeeGB Fri 05 Apr 2019, 08:21

I'm just coming up on the two year anniversary of my release. So Im pretty new at this. I have been deemed to have a DEC, but haven't even heard what SISIP is doing with me.

One thing Im taking away from all of this is the realization that we can never live in peace and security. We will be required to re hash our illnesses and disabilities for the rest of our lives. We will live in fear of our benefits being reduced or ceased. We will worry about things being taxable or non taxable and how many dollars we will lose or gain. We will worry about one branch of government, which has its own set of criteria, cutting us off, triggering another branch to cut us off as well. We will be duped(or attempted to be duped) time and time again as we lose little by little.

When I started to navigate these waters I had to deal with a certain amount of guilt WRT all the benefits I have received. But, I can tell you now, I want every single solitary penny that the government has decided Im entitled to.

I, for one, am going to keep going on the rehab program. Im not giving any ammo to these slime balls.

by Guest Fri 05 Apr 2019, 07:51

bigrex wrote:No, just like how being approved for CPP(D), triggers a DEC assessment, being removed from CPP(D), simply triggers a review of the DEC status. You don't automatically lose your DEC status, and the benefits that come with it. All it is, is these other organizations decisions, just makes VAC take a closer look at the Veteran, to make sure that they still meet THEIR standards, for DEC

That’s another thing I was wondering about, it’s my understanding that if a veteran is found to have a DEC, they lose their CM, and have a choice of continuing with a REHAB program. But every 2 years VAC is going to do a DEC qualifier on the vet, I.e. “ is your foot still missing.?” But what if a vet was found to a have a DEC due to PTSD and goes off the map for two years, no longer in treatment. Then in 2021 the vet is supposed to get reassessed what’s that going to look like, find some random psychiatrist who doesn’t know the vet and they are supposed to start spilling their guts again.?

by **bigrex** Fri 05 Apr 2019, 06:55

No, just like how being approved for CPP(D), triggers a DEC assessment, being removed from CPP(D), simply triggers a review of the DEC status. You don't automatically lose your DEC status, and the benefits that come with it. All it is, is these other organizations decisions, just makes VAC take a closer look at the Veteran, to make sure that they still meet THEIR standards, for DEC

by Guest Thu 04 Apr 2019, 22:01

Sleeping Dog wrote:
Yump5555 wrote:It appears under the new DEC policy that the 2 year follow up has been removed and has been changed to state that a DEC follow up can occur at anytime.

DEC Status – Follow up

In cases where a Veteran is determined to have a DEC, VAC may request the Veteran to undergo an examination or assessment to determine if he / she continues to meet the criteria for a DEC.
For the Rehabilitation Program purposes, a follow up request can occur at any point while:
the Veteran is participating in their rehabilitation plan as part of the evaluation of their plan; or
the Veteran is being assessed for rehabilitation needs after re-engaging in the Rehabilitation Program for health problems eligible under section 8 of the Act.
Should the Veteran refuse to comply with the request, VAC may consider cancelling the Veteran’s rehabilitation plan. Please refer to the Rehabilitation Services and Vocational Assistance Plan – Assessment, Development and Implementation policy for more detail with respect to assessment, evaluation and cancellation of rehabilitation plans.
For IRB purposes, a follow up request may only occur before a Veteran’s 65th birthday. After the age of 65, a DEC follow-up determination will not cease the IRB payment per subsection 18(10) of the VWA. Should the Veteran fail before age 65 to comply with any request for an examination or assessment for IRB purposes without reasonable cause, VAC may suspend or cancel the Veteran’s IRB in accordance with subsection 20(1) of the VWA (for more details see the Income Replacement Benefit policy).
A request for an examination or assessment of the Veteran’s DEC status may be made in any of the following circumstances:
the Veteran shows potential for improvement while participating in their rehabilitation plan;
the Veteran is interested in re-engaging in the Rehabilitation Program for health problems eligible under section 8 of the Act;
statements of earnings indicate that a Veteran with a DEC may be gainfully employed recently for two consecutive years;
statements or documents indicating that the Veteran with a DEC has an improved earnings capacity under other third party compensation plans and as defined by the respective plan, such as no longer “totally disabled” under CAF LTD (SISIP) or no longer eligible for Canada Pension Plan Disability or for a long term provincial or federal worker’s compensation plan; or
any other evidence that indicates that the Veteran has an improved earnings capacity.
If an examination or assessment is determined to be appropriate, the decision maker should consider the results as part of a new DEC determination with respective appeal rights. This new determination will follow the same steps as taken for an initial determination and in accordance with this policy.
The new DEC determination may also include eligible health problems that were not considered in the initial DEC determination (e.g., eligibility for health problem was established after the initial DEC determination).
If the Veteran is determined to have the capacity for suitable gainful employment, the DEC status should be terminated effective the date of the decision (Refer to Income Replacement Benefit for details of when IRB is payable).
this statement leads me to believe that if they are saying that if a veteran loses CPPD status he also loses DEC status, if thats the case, if a vet is declared CPPD he should also be declared DEC

I was wondering the same thing. Does this mean if we lose one, we lose all? Can anyone expand on this? Thanks in advance...

by Guest Thu 04 Apr 2019, 21:54

Yump5555 wrote:It appears under the new DEC policy that the 2 year follow up has been removed and has been changed to state that a DEC follow up can occur at anytime.

DEC Status – Follow up

In cases where a Veteran is determined to have a DEC, VAC may request the Veteran to undergo an examination or assessment to determine if he / she continues to meet the criteria for a DEC.
For the Rehabilitation Program purposes, a follow up request can occur at any point while:
the Veteran is participating in their rehabilitation plan as part of the evaluation of their plan; or
the Veteran is being assessed for rehabilitation needs after re-engaging in the Rehabilitation Program for health problems eligible under section 8 of the Act.
Should the Veteran refuse to comply with the request, VAC may consider cancelling the Veteran’s rehabilitation plan. Please refer to the Rehabilitation Services and Vocational Assistance Plan – Assessment, Development and Implementation policy for more detail with respect to assessment, evaluation and cancellation of rehabilitation plans.
For IRB purposes, a follow up request may only occur before a Veteran’s 65th birthday. After the age of 65, a DEC follow-up determination will not cease the IRB payment per subsection 18(10) of the VWA. Should the Veteran fail before age 65 to comply with any request for an examination or assessment for IRB purposes without reasonable cause, VAC may suspend or cancel the Veteran’s IRB in accordance with subsection 20(1) of the VWA (for more details see the Income Replacement Benefit policy).
A request for an examination or assessment of the Veteran’s DEC status may be made in any of the following circumstances:
the Veteran shows potential for improvement while participating in their rehabilitation plan;
the Veteran is interested in re-engaging in the Rehabilitation Program for health problems eligible under section 8 of the Act;
statements of earnings indicate that a Veteran with a DEC may be gainfully employed recently for two consecutive years;
statements or documents indicating that the Veteran with a DEC has an improved earnings capacity under other third party compensation plans and as defined by the respective plan, such as no longer “totally disabled” under CAF LTD (SISIP) or no longer eligible for Canada Pension Plan Disability or for a long term provincial or federal worker’s compensation plan; or
any other evidence that indicates that the Veteran has an improved earnings capacity.
If an examination or assessment is determined to be appropriate, the decision maker should consider the results as part of a new DEC determination with respective appeal rights. This new determination will follow the same steps as taken for an initial determination and in accordance with this policy.
The new DEC determination may also include eligible health problems that were not considered in the initial DEC determination (e.g., eligibility for health problem was established after the initial DEC determination).
If the Veteran is determined to have the capacity for suitable gainful employment, the DEC status should be terminated effective the date of the decision (Refer to Income Replacement Benefit for details of when IRB is payable).

this statement leads me to believe that if they are saying that if a veteran loses CPPD status he also loses DEC status, if thats the case, if a vet is declared CPPD he should also be declared DEC

by Guest Thu 04 Apr 2019, 18:12

Let me put it to you this way. If VAC calls us in every two years, just greet the VAC employee with a cup-o-fart. Excuse me sir, can I offer you a chocolate scented cup-o-fart? It's home brewed.

And if you get called into a VAC office, just put a lid on your hint-o-stink and make it a surprise.

Watch how fast they go.

by Guest Thu 04 Apr 2019, 18:05

Yump5555 wrote:It appears under the new DEC policy that the 2 year follow up has been removed and has been changed to state that a DEC follow up can occur at anytime.

DEC Status – Follow up

In cases where a Veteran is determined to have a DEC, VAC may request the Veteran to undergo an examination or assessment to determine if he / she continues to meet the criteria for a DEC.
For the Rehabilitation Program purposes, a follow up request can occur at any point while:
the Veteran is participating in their rehabilitation plan as part of the evaluation of their plan; or
the Veteran is being assessed for rehabilitation needs after re-engaging in the Rehabilitation Program for health problems eligible under section 8 of the Act.
Should the Veteran refuse to comply with the request, VAC may consider cancelling the Veteran’s rehabilitation plan. Please refer to the Rehabilitation Services and Vocational Assistance Plan – Assessment, Development and Implementation policy for more detail with respect to assessment, evaluation and cancellation of rehabilitation plans.
For IRB purposes, a follow up request may only occur before a Veteran’s 65th birthday. After the age of 65, a DEC follow-up determination will not cease the IRB payment per subsection 18(10) of the VWA. Should the Veteran fail before age 65 to comply with any request for an examination or assessment for IRB purposes without reasonable cause, VAC may suspend or cancel the Veteran’s IRB in accordance with subsection 20(1) of the VWA (for more details see the Income Replacement Benefit policy).
A request for an examination or assessment of the Veteran’s DEC status may be made in any of the following circumstances:
the Veteran shows potential for improvement while participating in their rehabilitation plan;
the Veteran is interested in re-engaging in the Rehabilitation Program for health problems eligible under section 8 of the Act;
statements of earnings indicate that a Veteran with a DEC may be gainfully employed recently for two consecutive years;

statements or documents indicating that the Veteran with a DEC has an improved earnings capacity under other third party compensation plans and as defined by the respective plan, such as no longer “totally disabled” under CAF LTD (SISIP) or no longer eligible for Canada Pension Plan Disability or for a long term provincial or federal worker’s compensation plan; or
any other evidence that indicates that the Veteran has an improved earnings capacity.
If an examination or assessment is determined to be appropriate, the decision maker should consider the results as part of a new DEC determination with respective appeal rights. This new determination will follow the same steps as taken for an initial determination and in accordance with this policy.
The new DEC determination may also include eligible health problems that were not considered in the initial DEC determination (e.g., eligibility for health problem was established after the initial DEC determination).
If the Veteran is determined to have the capacity for suitable gainful employment, the DEC status should be terminated effective the date of the decision (Refer to Income Replacement Benefit for details of when IRB is payable).

Yes, but there is also a piece in the legislation that says Canadian residency is not required in order to receive the IRB.

In other words, they can say what they want. but they have left the door open for us to say......ah ya, I don't live there. VAC won't bother us after the 2 year mark.

by Yump5555 Wed 03 Apr 2019, 21:41

It appears under the new DEC policy that the 2 year follow up has been removed and has been changed to state that a DEC follow up can occur at anytime.

DEC Status – Follow up

In cases where a Veteran is determined to have a DEC, VAC may request the Veteran to undergo an examination or assessment to determine if he / she continues to meet the criteria for a DEC.
For the Rehabilitation Program purposes, a follow up request can occur at any point while:
the Veteran is participating in their rehabilitation plan as part of the evaluation of their plan; or
the Veteran is being assessed for rehabilitation needs after re-engaging in the Rehabilitation Program for health problems eligible under section 8 of the Act.
Should the Veteran refuse to comply with the request, VAC may consider cancelling the Veteran’s rehabilitation plan. Please refer to the Rehabilitation Services and Vocational Assistance Plan – Assessment, Development and Implementation policy for more detail with respect to assessment, evaluation and cancellation of rehabilitation plans.
For IRB purposes, a follow up request may only occur before a Veteran’s 65th birthday. After the age of 65, a DEC follow-up determination will not cease the IRB payment per subsection 18(10) of the VWA. Should the Veteran fail before age 65 to comply with any request for an examination or assessment for IRB purposes without reasonable cause, VAC may suspend or cancel the Veteran’s IRB in accordance with subsection 20(1) of the VWA (for more details see the Income Replacement Benefit policy).
A request for an examination or assessment of the Veteran’s DEC status may be made in any of the following circumstances:
the Veteran shows potential for improvement while participating in their rehabilitation plan;
the Veteran is interested in re-engaging in the Rehabilitation Program for health problems eligible under section 8 of the Act;
statements of earnings indicate that a Veteran with a DEC may be gainfully employed recently for two consecutive years;
statements or documents indicating that the Veteran with a DEC has an improved earnings capacity under other third party compensation plans and as defined by the respective plan, such as no longer “totally disabled” under CAF LTD (SISIP) or no longer eligible for Canada Pension Plan Disability or for a long term provincial or federal worker’s compensation plan; or
any other evidence that indicates that the Veteran has an improved earnings capacity.
If an examination or assessment is determined to be appropriate, the decision maker should consider the results as part of a new DEC determination with respective appeal rights. This new determination will follow the same steps as taken for an initial determination and in accordance with this policy.
The new DEC determination may also include eligible health problems that were not considered in the initial DEC determination (e.g., eligibility for health problem was established after the initial DEC determination).
If the Veteran is determined to have the capacity for suitable gainful employment, the DEC status should be terminated effective the date of the decision (Refer to Income Replacement Benefit for details of when IRB is payable).

by **bigrex** Wed 03 Apr 2019, 12:09

Well, if you get denied the CIAS, hopefully you can get those increases, even retroactively.

by Guest Wed 03 Apr 2019, 11:01

bigrex wrote:It's unclear what will happen with Veterans who have already been out several years, IF they haven't been getting the CIAS. Because once you get the CIAS, you are no longer eligible for the 1% increases.

which would be better to receive, as I am in that boat.?

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