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Thanks for that Trooper.

Bottom line........................................................................................ FIX THE PROBLEM
                                                              Stop the Stigmatism

Well it's nice to see this topic is continuing to be discussed...various opinions an beliefs is what makes a topic interesting.
I appreciate all of the opinions posted on this particular topic...it is certainly a topic that is of the controversial type but we've had many of those... haven't we.

Here's my opinion an it is only an opinion not meant to persuade others to believe or agree.

I do believe that when were talking about a system that is set - up to determine the diagnose of PTSD which in this case would be the Medical Profession...we must first look at the difference between what is viewed as an opinion towards those qualified to make those decisions an the Medical Professions themselves making the decisions.
I do believe strongly that those outside the Medical Profession who make opinions... in this particular case PTSD ...are simply just voicing their own beliefs which is all well an good...but the bottom line is that it is only an opinion...it is not a professional opinion based on qualification...just like my own opinion here...it only holds merit as to what I believe.
I don't think anyone will dispute the fact that miss - diagnose does in fact happen...this with PTSD an anything or everything else that has to do with diagnosing...this is well known an documented so nothing new there.
No system is fool proof or perfect...what is disturbing in my view is when an opinion turns into interfering...by this I mean a unqualified individual or unqualified system interfering with the diagnose of a qualified Medical Profession...this is where one has to take a step back an really take a good look at the big picture an come to grips with the reality of their beliefs.
It's one thing to disagree...but it's a whole different ball game to interfere...I think a lot of the problem is coming from just that...interfering...which in my view is playing with fire an accomplishes nothing for the individual or individuals suffering from any such diagnose.
We see this a lot when we apply for benefits an are denied simply because of the interfering between those responsible for making the approval decision an those Medical Professions qualified to make the diagnose.
So the bottom line for me is simple...those who hold the proper qualifications...should be the ones who's diagnose holds merit.

Foot note to my post: We all should understand that a typical opinion rather you believe it or not...rather offensive to you or not...is nothing more then an opinion...don't be discourage in what you disagree on...what matters is what you - yourself - believe...everything else is just another persons view...which is all part of making the conversation.

I advocate for every veteran ! Especially the weak and disabled, because as you read! and trust me the general public feel the same way, the stigmatism is there.

1) Served in germany during cold war.....feared invasion...PTSD or NOT  
   as a teenage dependant living through bomb scares and during high alert during the gulf war with soldiers fully armed at the doors of my high school, fun fun.   ( I was in berlin chipping away at the wall, fear!)
2) Never went beyond front gate of base diagnosed with depression, PTSD or NOT
   diagnosed with depression because of discrimination.
3) Searched for bodies of plane accident but never found any.....PTSD or NOT
    Crew member of HMCS the VDQ in 1998
4) Over heard discussion of two soldiers who were on mission....PTSD or NOT.
          no
5) Claimed to be in ambush, wounded by grenade, but was never there....PTSD or NOT
          no, but sailed through an active leftover mindfield from WW2 field while the CO of the ship was sleeping, somewhere in but F#ck who knows.
6) Claimed to be on a patrol that was under fire, but was not on patrol..PTSD or NOT
          never.
Oh ya! and survived just the daily life at sea as a boatswain.  Stress ! ! ! Action stations ,Action Stations ! ! !

How does one fake PTSD? wish I could go back in time  and just never of  sought help, 3 month after Swiss air.  Yes!  because according to Rags it would of been a lot better to follow suit and committee suicide like my peers and to not of sought help.
I was 20  years old and thinking about suicide, never had voices like that in my head before, but the voice were there.

STIGMA= RAGS+ unless you have a PHD in phycology or psychiatry,  don't talk to me about PTSD or mental illness.  

because this is not good reading for anyone

I never claim to  have PTSD, I am being told I have it and unlike rags I haven't submitted a claim for PTSD
Rags has PTSD and he acknowledges that he has it and he has the medical documents, so I could be out in left field.

Yes! your right, I don't have PTSD, because I don't fit your criteria rags, but I am okay with that because your not my psychiatrist and I thank god for that.
Really! you have a psychiatry PHD Rags, LMFAO.

WOW ! we have now established contact with a simple mind.

How about years of abuse mentally and physically ! ! ! and you know something rags when you are medically released from the forces, you try living with that with pride. I look around and I am so angry ! Kicked out of the forces, which they call quote on quote medically released, but I call it more like DISCRIMINATION ! ! ! and reading post RAGS empowers me more and specially ones like yours, when I look around and see what the general public and the perception they have towards mentally ill soldiers (and I include you as one rag) that I smile and go on with my day because all my powers have been taken away.

Rags, I don't think anyone is saying that false PTSD claims haven't been made, but I don't think that it is as rampant as the article would have us believe. There is also a big difference between faking PTSD, and misdiagnosing other OSI's or mental health issues. The examples you gave, if true, would not pass the smell test, regardless of a diagnosis, and would likely be denied by VAC. But then again, we've seen other questionable claims get approved (the First Nations sailor who was given a disability award for hypertension, because ship food made him fat), while other legitimate claims are denied. I know of one guy who was diagnosed for PTSD, and claimed it was because he was on the crew that carried the coffins off the plane, when they arrived back in Canada.But I'm not sure if he was given any benefits.

As far as Swiss Air is concerned, I can't speak for the Army side of things, but I know several sailors who developed PTSD from it because they were the ones pulling body parts out of the water or cataloging them on HMCS Preserver, where the fridge was used as a temporary morgue. I think that one reason that PTSD cases have increased, including from Afghanistan, was the heavy reliance on reservists. A lot of these were kids who were putting on the uniform every couple of weekends, and maybe a month or two in the summer, just to earn a little extra money and maybe have an adventure that working at McDonalds wouldn't provide, and then taking them and placing them into a high stress situations that they just weren't mentally prepared for.

Wow this has been an interesting read.
To think that people after all the crap still believe that PTSD is not being faked and mis labeled for other mental conditions are not being reasonable.
The whole reason we are having stigma problems and the charter was changed was because of the rampant faking of many issues but in particular PTSD.

I ask you all who feel this is not valid to think about some logical reasoning on the issue. Simple you tell me:
1) Served in germany during cold war.....feared invasion...PTSD or NOT  
2) Never went beyond front gate of base diagnosed with depression, PTSD or NOT
3) Searched for bodies of plane accident but never found any.....PTSD or NOT
4) Over heard discussion of two soldiers who were on mission....PTSD or NOT.
5) Claimed to be in ambush, wounded by grenade, but was never there....PTSD or NOT
6) Claimed to be on a patrol that was under fire, but was not on patrol..PTSD or NOT

I could go on but I know you get the point. too many people who have other medical issue claim PTSD cause its easy and better to go out on PTSD then just plain crazy. Sorry it is what it is.

Do me one more favour read the DM on PTSD then read the older one from 1998 before it changed. That simple change in the Dm criteria opened the flood gates. For an example of the change for the DM pre 98 if you went to OP Swiss Air you could not get PTSD unless you were in the plan and survived. But after the DM was changed in 99 you didnt have to be in danger of life just think ya were. That my friends is a massive load of crap!
I have PTSD I was a severe case and I was recently diagnosed when I went to run the Swiss Air OP for the Army the night it occurred. It was sad and unfortunate but it did not bother me to the point of issues after all I was not in the crash so why would it bother me to that extent...sad yes...PTSD no! My doc at Halifax was surprised I did Swiss Air with the diagnosis but that question came after the DM had changed under new DM I would not have been allowed to command the recovery or even be on it or anywhere near it. I know of people who claimed PTSD from Swiss Air and I know as the Army lead who was everywhere in that first few weeks they never saw or where involved in anything....truth is many a person who needed a early retirement in the Navy used Swiss Air to get out the well paid easy way.

 Now before you explode..........there are also many real cases of PTSD that occured through missions over seas.....but there are also cases of PTSD (rape) that are not mission battle related and those are PTSD just not from combat stress and not mission related. Those cases need to be treated different not less! Just different. But there is no way no way you will ever convince me a manic person who joins the CF with the illness should be medically released with PTSD as the diagnosis....its F..n Manic Depression you morons with medical degrees not PTSD.

Ok there it is again

Rags

Information is knowledge ladies and gentlemen, read and keep reading.
Reading every single post and understanding how we are all in this together but somehow divided on issues is mind boggling , but it is okay with me, I like this, because if we agreed on everything there wouldn't be a VAC.
Listen it is hard to understand mental illness. I worked amongst it for years and years. I had a mental illness the whole time as well while working amongst it and I didn't seek treatment myself because I refused to acknowledge the signs I was having. My wife was telling me that she was leaving, which signalled to me that things were getting worse.
Currently I am seeking treatment for this mental illness and I still look at my doctor in the eyes and tell her I don't believe it, which she replies, “Danny, I see it every day, people like you who come into my office with the same symptoms and the same body language ”.
It really sucks. My lifestyle is not what I expected it to be (quality of life is the shits and has been for years), but there’s hope (apparently).
I have a good team surrounding me, which at this point have helped me for the last three years in maintaining my quality of life, which is all I am asking for at this point in time.
But here is the kicker……19 years later after the fact and having not seen a psychiatrist for all those years and then being told you have PTSD? And by the way if you think getting a diagnosis of PTSD comes with being seen once or twice, think again. Years of mental therapy and questions and answers sessions, trust me, it is pulling the past out of my brain and for me it is good to talk about it period.

Csat is like a good Ole lady! Sometimes you have to get away but in the end you always return. It's nature can't fight it!

Well thank you there Navrat...we go back a ways don't we...I can remember during our retro days an our ordeals with the CRA the number you provided to us all which really ended up helping so many here...other help you provided also but in this particular case with the number saved a lot of members waiting to get in to see their MOP which could have taken forever to resolve...I don't forget important things like that an it's a real pleasure knowing that you are an continue to be part of the Forum...hope you stick around cause it would not be the same without you.

Trooper you are a wise man!

I agree we should be encouraging Veteran related articles to be posted...I also agree that all members should post on the Forum as to what they themselves believe...we have been doing it all along...this should not , an will not change.
We must also allow for respectful conversations amongst ourselves in the way we express our beliefs.
What I have seen happen far to often in the past is we sometimes get a bit off track an a typical topic turns into an argumentative format...not the case here as I will again explain what has taken place here with regards to this particular topic.

As you all know by now I have been approached by a member to request a certain article be removed from the VVi Latest News Section.
Like I have said right from the beginning I appreciate the concerns of what the member has requested an acted in the following manner to address the members concern.
1. I made contact with the individual who posted the article in the VVi Latest News Section an forwarded the members concerns to that individual.
2. I also contacted the member of our Forum who posted the article to our Forum an forwarded the exact concern to that individual member.

Now you all know the result of my submission request an why it was denied.
In my own opinion I fully agree with the decision by Admin...we cannot an must not discourage the post of any such article that relates to Veterans.
I don't agree with what the writer of the article said as many here have voiced the exact same opinion...it is clear that most if not all feel the same way about the writer.
I have seen many articles posted both here an on VVi Latest News Section that I fully disagreed with what the writer has written an some that I have seen a far worse an far more insulting then the article in question here.
One point that I think is of importance here an to keep in mind is that it is the writer who writes the article who is responsible for the context of that article...it is by no means the responsibility of the individual who post such an article to be blamed for what the context of the articles is.

wild thing made an excellent point in stating that the article although controversial should also be viewed as a heads - up... an for all to know that it's out there.
To remove it would take away our very own right to not only know the article exist but to also take away our right to dispute it...that would result in the so called writer getting away with writing something that in this case goes against what many feel is unjustified which of course would result in taking away our very own right to dispute it.

I'm almost certain with all of the good people we have here on CSAT...most will understand that it is extremely difficult to please everyone...we work good together in all aspects of our daily discussions...we all do our part in showing respect to one another knowing full well that sometimes we don't see eye to eye on certain topics which in my view is completely normal , I understand this an like all of you always take this into consideration when responding or posting on the Forum...but I'm not afraid to say that I'm not perfect an most certainly no better then anyone else here.
We work each an everyday as a team in helping each other out... that's what it's all about...don't let small things in life discourage you when you read something that you don't agree with...it's only an opinion an you can always react to something you disagree with.

So the article stays an that's the end of that...like I said we can't please everyone.

Not agreeing with what the writer has written in the article is a different issue.
I encourage all to voice your opinions on being opposed to what the writer has written...I enjoyed reading all of your post thus far an thank you for being civil an respecting each other in doing so...I look forward to reading more of your post on this particular issue an all other topics that are up for discussion...post away is what I say

The only intension here was to inform people that this stuff is circulating Nav who the h--- would fake ptsd and go threw that crap and stima if they didn't suffer from it there is no amount of money worth it. rehab and automatic elb will help so if a soldier does come forward looking for help he will not have to worry about starving his family in order to get help that is the key. Im hoping my ptsd claim is turned down so i can give it to them some more so the next soldier will not have to go threw the world of denial. i don't care. By the time i get done they will be less likely to deny claims and give benefits and except DR's reports or the soldiers own personal experience and declaration. You people can tell your story to the doc but if you write your whole story in a declaration and tell it in legal form to VAC/VRAB make them experiece what has been your night mare then they have to look you in the eye knowing they have to live with giving you a denial and what that might do to them. I have nothing to gain financialy from my claim my goal is to make it easyer for other vets.