SISIP LTD and ELB

keeping this current due to its relevance.

propat

I would appeal, because there are situations where the class member could be out of a lot of money. This could happen if their PA payment equaled half of their ELB entitlement. IE: 75% is $2000/month. PA pension was $1000. That left $1000 minus taxes covered by ELB. Now they are saying that since you are now getting that $2000/month in retro, they want their $1000/month back, in whole. Now that retro money is having 30% held back for taxes, so it's now only $1400. Plus there is the legal fees of roughly 9%, which brings it down to $1220/month. That will leave the class member with only $220/month. Add that money to the net amount he would have actually received (approx $800), and compare that to what he would have received if the clawback had never occurred, and he is out almost half of his benefits. Now if SISIP deducted the $1000 received from ELB, the retro would be reduced to $1000/month. then after the deductions, it would leave the class member with $610/ month. That is a net gain of $390 per month, just by avoiding the overpayment scenario.

TTT you should appeal asap as any funds payed to you prior to the judges decision should not be recoverable as you were not in an overpayment position at that time. failing that you should demand a remission for AT LEAST the part prior to the judges decision for the following reason you halve already read.

Remission
24.Remission means to forgive an otherwise legally enforceable debt. In this context, it is an act of clemency on the part of the Minister and not a right. Once remission has been approved, the Department gives up its right to recover the overpayment at a later date.
25.Although recovery is normally the first consideration in the overpayment process, there may be instances where such action is not desirable. According to section 88 of the CFMVRCA, if a person, including their estate or succession, has received or obtained an overpayment, all, or a portion of the overpayment may be remitted in the following circumstances:a.the overpayment cannot be recovered within the reasonably foreseeable future - applicable in those situations where an overpayment is being recovered, but it has not been completely repaid five years after the date the overpayment recovery action began;
b.the administrative costs of recovering the overpayment are likely to equal or exceed the amount to be recovered - only applicable in those situations where the amount of the overpayment does not exceed $150;
c.the repayment of the overpayment would cause undue hardship to the person or a beneficiary - applicable in those situations where the client is in receipt of income-tested benefits (i.e., Guaranteed Income Supplement, CFIS benefit, etc.), and/or if emotional distress caused by the overpayment appears to pose a threat to the client’s state of health;
d.the overpayment is the result of an administrative error, a delay or an oversight on the part of an officer or employee of the federal public administration -applicable in those situations where the overpayment is the result of:i.a payment system error;
ii.a misinterpretation of legislation;
iii.a misunderstanding of a decision;
iv.a mistake concerning an effective date; or
v.a procedural error.


25 d looks to fit perfect for the amount prior to the judges decision.

propat

bigrex wrote:TTT, on your worksheet, did it break down how much you received each year, and or other deductions? Because if SISIP already deducted the amounts given to you for ELB from your retro, then there is no overpayment. If I knew I was reinstated, but hadn't been paid yet,  I would call Peter and have him ensure that in the future, all ELB payment are being deducted at source, just to avoid any headaches.
   

your so right .. Vac said in a letter I owe xxx amount hmm?? So I looked at the letter's from Sisip ? Vac was over by $5000 .. I phoned Vac a CM told me to appeal this ASAP

In my mind I do not think VAC would be able ask SISIP to do a recovery of funds due to the Privacy Act. How could they relay this info without breaching your information??? Just a thought, I don't know how much you are getting back but I do know that you can ask VAC IF IT WILL CREATE A FINANCIAL HARDSHIP to dismiss the amount. When I released, VAC were apparently working for the wrong date by a year. Due to the Brain Injury I was not aware of the mistake, and the amount was ALOT, my husband sent them a letter stating the Financial Hardship and they suppressed the recovery.

As soon as The clawback ceased , Vac booted me off EELB, I wasn't getting anything anyway but Vac said I am Sisip now!

bigrex

I did receive a worksheet with my ELB. It does show all payments I received back to May 2006. The check I received from Manual Life with my letter of re-instatement  was for "full" benefits minus tax, from 01 Oct 2012 until 30 June 2013. No ELB benefits were deducted. So that means that VAC was not aware that I was a class member? Doesn't appear to have been much information sharing when it comes to my particular situation.

You suggested I inform Peter to have all ELB overpayment amounts deducted at source. What if I don't have to pay back monies received prior to Oct 2012? Propat mentioned that he checked on SISIP's policy of relevant sources of income, and ELB was not among them. Do you think that SISIP would deduct an ELB overpayment from my retro just because VAC wants them to? What if there is an error in VAC's calculations? Trying to straighten that out will be a nightmare. Do you know of any members whom that has happened to, where VAC has directed Manual Life to deduct an overpayment?

TTT

TTT, on your worksheet, did it break down how much you received each year, and or other deductions? Because if SISIP already deducted the amounts given to you for ELB from your retro, then there is no overpayment. If I knew I was reinstated, but hadn't been paid yet, I would call Peter and have him ensure that in the future, all ELB payment are being deducted at source, just to avoid any headaches.

Well it's official. I received a letter from Head Office Charlottetown:

Dear Triple T

We have recently been advised that you are receiving SISIP LTD benefits. As SISIP benefits must be considered as a deduction in calculating your Earnings Loss Benefit*, no Earnings Loss Benefit is payable at this time.

We have re-calculated your Earnings Loss Benefit amounts for the period 31 May 2006 to 31 July 2013, to account for the SISIP benefit amounts you received during that period. We have calculated a total overpayment of $xxxxx.xx.

You will be contacted by our Overpayment Unit in the near future regarding your re-payment.

* According to Section 22 of the Canadian Forces Members and Veterans Re-establishment and Compensation Regulations.

I am feeling some mixed reaction. Although it was great news to hear that my file has been through adjudication, and I have been re-instated, I can't help but wonder what kind of "cluster f**k" I can look forward to now that VAC has stuck their nose into it. If there is a member out there who has already been through this ssituation, I am curious if they will recover 100% of ELB overpayment from my SISIP retro, or will they let me pay it back in installments, or maybe there is some other course of action they will follow. Any input would be appreciated.

TTT

Apparently having worked on and off isn't a barrier to being reinstated, if I fully understand what others have written about their own situations before getting reinstated. The only thing, I'm not clear about is this 3 year time limit you are talking about. There is no time limit for getting reinstated, as some guys had their files closed well over a decade and were reinstated.

I have a question and hoping someone can help me out or turn me in the right direction I have been on sisip for 13 yrs but with the money they have been taking I had to get work as it has been off and on as I could not keep it up my body is just not strong enough they said I had past the 3 yr term in order to get reinstated my question is I had worked went on ei and then worked and so on now im officially done as I have to do severe treatments to get semi ok is there anybody that can help me out to see if I do qualify again thanks so much for any info.

TTT, it should be simple. SISIP will have to know the amounts you received from ELB when they complete your file, so they should simply tell you that because you were already in receipt of full ELB benefits, then there is no SISIP funds required for those months. If VAC insists on you paying that money back, even if it was already deducted from your SISIP benefit, then you should contact SISIP, as they will owe you for those months as well. Basically, you are entitled to get 75% of your military pay every month, so if SISIP doesn't pay it, VAC should, and vice versa. So in the end, you are no worse, or better off, than you are entitled.

I just called VAC last week and ceased my ELB as soon as Sisip told me I would be getting LTD till age 65 .. I will wait for the letter from VAC telling me * you owe us*.. My CM is retarded I swear .. she once broke down and cried on the phone talking to me ...

For repayment back to VAC,

they usually, from my previous experience go with 10% of whatever amount you are still receiving from them on a monthly basis,

For example you are receiving $10 from them on a ongoing monthly basis, the repayment would be $1 per month until it is repaid..

Same goes for repayment to the CF Superannuation act in regard to over payments, they go on 10% of monthly pension amount until paid off,

unless you figure you can repay more in either case, or they inadvertently without your input or response from notice of overpayment calculate for more,

If you are NVC I am unsure on any re payment of funds such as ELB..

GREAT REASERCH TTT i looked everywhere and couldn't find this.this link is i great read and i recommend it highly for anyone else in your situation ore similar as it could save you a lot.

TTT your course of action chosen seems to me to be the best choice as far as im concerned. as far as anything payed prior to oct 1 2012 you were payed that legally and should not have to be payed back nor do i believe sisip can deduct it in their retro calculations as it is not in their policy under relevant sources of income like the DVA pension use to be.

once again great research.

propat