Call me a skeptic but is Mike Blais selling out veterans?

Rags... Tell me how you define this, artillery danger close artillery round comes in explodes to close to troops takes pieces out of my apc dropped down in hatch avoided getting my head taken off by shrapnel a another foo party not so lucky piece of shrapnel goes though side of apc hits radios they explode injuring personel killing one. this sort of training was a daily activity for me every time you enter the impact area you are entering a combat zone with unexploded artillery tank morter 500 and 2000lb rounds unstable and ready to explode if hit by an apc track in the long grass. It was just part of our training. I personally would say my life has been in danger and my stress level has been as high as much or more than any vet who served in a combat zone. So i 100% disagree with your view on this subject.

RCNRet,
   You raise good point. Id say when one looks at this approach I have laid out there are BLACK and WHITE easy responses.......but then as in all things modern there is always GRAY. Its easy to define Black ad white problem is how do we deal with the gray zone. I side with more Black and white then gray and by drawing a line in the sand that separates issues we easily define the Black from the White with small arguments around the Gray. So what this means inside my argument is that at some point someone needs to draw a line and you are either in combat or not. Those that are in combat get specialized approach those that are not get a different approach. WHATS COMBAT? Always the difficult argument for office staff but simple for those who have been in it. Id suggest and my view comes from the past and how it was dealt with before which to me seems like an easier way to look at it. Being in Combat is very specific, someone has to try and kill you.....by  what ever means! Its real simple.....TRIED TO KILL YOU. That does not mean if some group of actions had happened but did not then I could have been killed.....it means TRIED!!! So the fellow that is on a ship off the Iranian coast during Gulf War 1 so far back from Iraq that no ship or plane from Saddam could have reached them but they may have been in range of Iranian land based anti ship missiles.....they cant claim combat. Only if that missile was fired at them and even then it has to hit the ship or be a almost ever ending barrage.
  So in a nut shell does a sailor who falls down the deck ladder and severely breaks his leg and must be released and get support for the rest of his life....does that fall under DVA or LTD? On civy street that same injury on a ship at sea would be workers comp and work place insurance. If that ship was fired at and hit by missile and that sailor fell down stairs.....COMBAT and full DVA. It is a simple difference to define and the support and pay out for what government agency changes and has huge financial impacts to the agency. Id suggest that our Insurance should covers these injuries not DVA. In the past DVA did not cover this it is only now since late 90s that is why the charter changed. Now the most important part of my argument is that DVA will at one point help this sailor because they were in the servce of the coutry and DVA will ensure at retirement that soldier has support as they age to ensure a level of dignity for going to mission into a SDA Special Duty Area. If that same slip and fall accident happend in port at Halifax......no DVA ever.
  On the issue of inside the wire and outside the wire for ground combat......I hate the word inside/outside the wire! In a real war where people actually have an army that fights you with tanks and jets and navy and artillery and soldiers that can actually on mass attack you and make you fight....there is no wire. When you fight a bunch of flip flop wearing rebels with a rifle and its an insurgency not a war then I guess some people hide behind a thing called a wire. One can only define combat by shooting and a distance from the place you fight and get shot at.....wires dont count. On that note then same argument.....Soldier is badly hurt in slip and fall accident in a Special Duty Area, he slipped off a roof raising an antenna mast. If he was being shot at DVA if he was at Kandahar airfield and just slipped then LTD no DVA till he is old and needs support to give dignity. If that same soldier slipped in Gagetown LTD no DVA ever.

Agree or disagree it does not matter what matters is the difference between the examples is why the government had to change the charter and a way to solve the issue or not solve the issue. In the end it is all about money and support. Who deserves what type of support and who pays.

I think work place insurance must play a roll and pay for non combat related injury and I think DVA should pay for combat injury. I also believe that if you were injured in a SDA but not in combat then DVA must monitor you to ensure that after the age of 65 you are supported to ensure  level of dignity in old age.

For me its Black and White.....the Gray is easily defined.

Rags

Yes us, older, RadOps were technically ASSimulated and turned into SigOps. But then again I am an Airborne RadOp and will not be ASSimulated. Airborne!

No such thing as a RadOp anymore. They merged with the Sigs several years ago, and now they are all called NavComms, My brother is a P2 NavComm, and he is set to retire on the 1st of Apr. What an April fools day joke.

Redfisher - Lol you are so right, its been too long. I will slap myself and stand in the corner mate. But I do have some snow out here in eastern Canada, that we can sell you.. tks comrade.

Johnny211 this is redfisher msg really? over and out? there is no such thing in Canadian voice procedure. Bad RadOp! msg ends redfisher out

Many Canadians are vaguely aware of the military’s steady involvement in overseas operations over the past 20 years. For many soldiers, however, memories of these places torment them daily. They are haunted; they are changed from who they were as proud men and women. How do we support these soldiers to find their way back home? The story of Master Corporal Billy Reardon is an intimate portrayal of his journey from young man to mentally wounded military veteran. We see the world through his eyes as the toll of his deployments mount and as he struggles within the mental health system. We also see him find recovery and reconnection to the military brotherhood along with other veterans. Billy’s story raises questions about the roles of front-line leadership and challenges health providers to develop an intimate understanding of military culture as a prerequisite to assisting traumatized veterans and their families.

If you are a Veteran, this book may answer some questions you may have.
 Just putting it out there!

Dannypaj - It is an awesome book, doing a second read thru now. Its hard to put down. You are so right, it hit the nail on the head for those of us who have been thru all the same stuff. VVV...

Going Crazy in the Green Machine. A book that puts a different perspective in serving in the CF by a former member.  In my opinion, it addresses some of what Veteran are living through by the stories of people who served in the CF. It also describes the strong bond one has with their commitment and the oath of allegiance to the CF.

Hi Rags and RCNRetired, great discussion on combat vis non combat mental or physical injuries. Just one thing to throw in here. Although I did a tour, my mental injuries that I have and still battle daily, happened on right here in Canada. On a small island off Peggys Cove during the Swiss Air crash. And I am not alone on this one. And yes RCNRetired you are right, a soldier is a soldier, and we all should be treated equally by VA..over and out.

Rags, have always enjoyed reading your rants and have agreed with most of what you have stated. Where I am not to familiar with ground combat per say as in the RCN our combat was different than those of you that patrolled outside the wire and had to at times carry out close in combat to save yourselves and your fellow combat members. Our ships in the new wars patrol and conduct surveillance on potential threats entering a restricted area. Having to board ships to conduct searches never knowing if there is an ambush waiting or not is extremely stressful. Watching shipmates die because they accidentally made a mistake. There are many scenarios that could lead our service men and women to be injured, develop a mental illness, etc. etc.. Are they all combat injuries, I would suggest that yes they very well may be. But now take a ship that may be deployed for 6-8 months where day in and day out they train, and train some more so as that if their ship comes under attack or if there are fires and/or flooding they can fight the ship. These same sailors may not enter into what is referred to a combat zone, are these men and women entitled to less? I am afraid to say that the current standards say yes they are. Is this fair? I would suggest no it is not! But our VA says it is so these soldiers are getting less than the one that developed PTSD in Afghanistan, a soldier is a soldier, they all gave in different ways, but they gave their sanity and many their dignity in defence of their country. Now the individual that never left home soil but ended up with depression because of their constant worry of perhaps being sent in harms way or the one as you put it that hurt themselves playing floor hockey for the base, sure, they could be looked at differently. But what we have right now is in my humble opinion not a level field. Something needs to be done, but again unfortunately the civvies in the Legions do not understand and there are many others that need to put up or shut up. You my friend I again enjoy your writings and your common sense approach. Problem is the three services have different criteria and the clowns in Charlottetown along with the HOC do not understand one dam thing about any of them but yet they are considered the experts. Cheers.

I agree Propat the BUY OUT IS an idiotic solution to the problem at DVA. It may have been a good idea to coord small lump sum pay outs for non battle injured but for the combat injured and anyone who has a catastrophic injury it was a wholeheartedly stupid thought.

On the point about soldier who gets leg blown off in training. Well Id suggest that what was done in WW1 and WW2 for that soldier.........they were considered battle injured as it was in training for the big go. The issue that needs to be addressed is the soldier that tore his ACL while playing old timers or pickup sports....does he deserve a DVA pension till death? NO WAY!!!!! thats the problem with th system. How about the CF member who joined with depression and over the years never deployed but the depression got worse and the marriage broke up and the CF member is now totally depressed........DVA PTSD pension for life? NO WAY. Those two examples are just the tip of the iceberg. This is why DVA tried to fix the system it failed there is a better way but piles of current DVA payees would be cut off and or not entitiled to DVA. They would get SISP or the new version of LTD but have nothing to do with DVA. The current solution to merge SISP and DVA is another idiotic move.

Rags

WOW rags ya really laid that out there of course you have laid this out there before not as concise as it is right here but a lot lot more blunt or straight to the point as it were.

you have a lot of great points here but I still think I disagree with the main point you are trying to get to.

what is a combat injury ???

a 2 year infantry pte gets a leg blown off in Canada during work up training ,not exactly a civi type job, or he does not and has the same thing happen 4 month later on operation in some crap hole . does he get treated different in those situation?????

did 20 straight years as an infantry type ALLWAYS in I fighting position no school no RC or any of that stuff . will being in an operational unit change things ????? I was always operational ready for 20 years no matter where I was at the time because I knew I could be going anywhere at the drop of a hat.

now like you a still talk to a lot of these guys and while ive here'd some of these concerns what I here the most from the modern day disabled vets is;;;

this fracking BUYOUT BLOWS GOATS .

so for that reason I think any conversation to do with disabled vets benefits has to start there.

if I were the king for a day I would END THE BUYOUT NOW!!!!!

rags thanks for giving me a lot to think about buds.

propat

Mike Blais leans a bit too far to the left for my liking. We have discussed the Legion part before and they seem to have a louder voice than us. A bunch of effen civies who as a group represent us? I nominate Maj Mark Campbell for the candidate to lead the Common Sense Party of Canada. Oh wait a minute that makes too much sense.

Propat, with inflation my two cents is now only 1.5 cents. ha ha.

Ive eluded to my position on several occasions but it is rather difficult to get traction on as everyone has a dog in the fight and dont want their milkbone supplement to change.

In a nut shell no vet org has ever clearly stated the problem and clearly stated the new modern nuances to the problem. Id love to lay out a thread on the issue and let people chime in but there would be the usual troll attack cause someone feels singled out for less money or credibility in there world.

In a basic comment one has to ask them selves a simple group of questions with the frame of mind what was the intention not the end result:
1) What was Veterans affairs created to do? Who where their specific clients back in the day. Based on the first to parts being answered now what level of support and assistance was determined and how was it determined?
2) What was SISIP LTD created for? Who where their specific clients back in the day? How was level of support and assistance determined?

Now that those above answered are complete what would a Canadian worker injured on the job be entitled to and how would that system work.
1) What was Workers Compensation created to do? Who where their specific clients back in the day. Based on the first to parts being answered now what level of support and assistance was determined and how was it determined?
2) What was Private business/workplace LTD created for? Who where their specific clients back in the day? How was level of support and assistance determined?
Last but not least how does CPPD play into both the top questions and the bottom?

You have your answer as to why the new vet charter was brought in and you have the solution to make it work and fare.

My basic approach to answers above:

DVA was created to take care of the wounded from battle and to give dignity to veterans in there elder years to ensure non was left in poverty or ill health when they where in old age. Key point is wounded from battle and dignity in old age.
SISIP was created to take care of the injured when issues of workers compensation became main steam on civy street in the late 60s. Key point both battle and non battle injured.
Workers compensation does not exist in the Military so it is included in the SISIP LTD program so it is covered off.

What would you do if you where king for a day to be fare to veterans wounded in combat and the veterans who worked there job in the CF like nyone else works in there work place?

Rags