Bill C-58 "Support for Veterans and Their Families Act" (short title)

Just some points to look at with respect to what has been discussed about the RISB among ourselves, and what I perceive the RISB to be in understanding it, and understanding the calculations for qualifying for a top up, at 65.

As already stated, this can be a head scratch for many including myself, so don't be afraid to add or correct any or all of my post.

                                                             Retirement Income Security Benefit

40.1 (1) The Minister may, on application, pay a retirement income security benefit to a veteran who

(a) has attained the age of 65 years;

(b) on the day before the day on which they attained the age of 65 years, was eligible to continue to receive an earnings loss benefit under subsection 18(4); and

(c) is eligible for a disability award under section 45 or a disability pension under the Pension Act.

(2) The retirement income security benefit begins to be payable on the later of

(a) the day after the day on which the veteran attains the age of 65 years, and

(b) the day that is one year before the day on which the Minister determines that the veteran is entitled to the benefit.

(3) The retirement income security benefit ceases to be payable on the last day of the month in which the veteran dies.

(4) Subject to the regulations, the monthly amount of the retirement income security benefit that is payable to a veteran shall be determined in accordance with the formula

(A + B) – C

1) So let's first look at the purpose of the RISB before we get to the formula suggested.
The purpose of the RISB I think is we can all agree is to ensure that those Veterans ' Who's Income level fall below a certain income level at 65 " are topped up to a determined amount of $43400.00.

2) Formula.

The formula that they are suggesting is A+B-C

(A), 70% of ELB or SISIP + (B), 70% of PIA   Minus (C), Other sources of income such as, CF pension, CPP, OAS

3) The formula used for the RISB is simply a formula for determination.
   If the Veteran does  require a top up, if from the formula it is showed that the Veteran does not require a top up,
   the Veterans PIA will remain at the same amount as it was before the 70% was taken into account for the RISB calculation.
   Or in other words if they do not qualify for a RISB top up, their PIA amount will not change.
   And lastly, we are going to lose our full ELB, or SISIP when we turn 65.

One final point about SISIP at 65, I was told that those who were released prior to a certain Month in 1995, you will get SISIP for life, I have notes of this, but cannot find the directive, so if anyone could share some light on this, I would appreciate it.

hey trooper when you said

Or in other words if they do not qualify for a RISB top up, their PIA amount will not change.

that seems correct and even if you qualify your PIA and sup will not change.

propat

propat.

I did read what the staffer has wrote, and yes in his statement he does say that the PIA does not change if you qualify for the RISB.

This is my problem with that statement, if that is the case, why even bother reducing the PIA to 70% for calculation in the first place, if you are topped up from that reduction in the first place ?

From my chair that does not add up, what his saying there is you get two top ups, one at the reduction of 70% of the PIA.
And the other from 100% of the PIA.

Not to mention that it goes against the formula provided from the Bill.

Where am I going wrong with this ?

They need to put out examples of how exactly the calculations will work, comparing a person's income before age 65, and after 65.

Perhaps what the staffer meant is that the RISB and the formula policy for calculations in itself does not mean your PIA will change.

Perhaps, he thought that some were concerned that because of this new benefit, a 30% reduction in their PIA when they turned 65 would be automatic, and he wanted to ensure that was not the case.

And absolutely Rex, samples with numbers would be nice.

honestly trooper it makes no sense to me either im guessing they missed something or they have plans on changing the regulations in a manner in witch will allow them to deduct the PIA and supplement from the RISB calculations .

not sure about it going against the formula as it seems the 70% is for calculation purposes only and has no effect on the actual benefits themselves .

propat

ya I agree as well a few examples would be nice four examples would be nice for a guys with the same pre release salary but in different situations like one with a mil pension one without and throw in with PIA and sup and one without.

propat

Well the formula is put in place to determine top up, and top up amount if applicable.

And it does have everything to do with the benefit as the reduced 30% from the PIA, from the formula, is one aspect that  determines eligibility - and amount of eligibility.

trooper the BENIFITS i was referring to are the PIA and sup not the RISB BENIFIT .

since they are saying you keep your PIA and sup regardless the calcs do not have any effect on the PIA and sup just on the RISB benefit.

propat

What I was saying that it goes against the formula because they are reducing the PIA in the formula for calculation purposes, if a top up is issued from the formula, and they say that your PIA does not change from your top up ( no reduction to the PIA), then they are going against their own formula, as in order for this to happen, no reduction of your PIA could have taken place for this to have happen, therefore resulting in them going against their own 30% PIA reduction from their own formula.

no buds I don't think so it seems they are using the PIA and sup only for calculating your benefit like sisip uses your pre release salary . they don't actually change your pre release salary the just use the 75% of it to calculate your base benefit and subtract from there.

this seems like the very same proses they are using here .

70% of what you were receiving prior minus the other stuff.

propat

Trooper, the info you wanted on SISIP directive can be found in the policy at part 3 58(d) in the following link https://www.cfmws.com/en/AboutUs/SISIPFS/download/Documents/901102_e.pdf

So its prior to January 1 1995 SISIP is for life


Cheer's

propat,

Our CF pre release salary does change when SISIP does there calculations, it changes from 100% to 75%, not including other deductions.

Same thing applies for the PIA in calculating for the RISB according to their formula, the formula they are using shows a 30% reduction from the PIA for calculation purposes, if you qualify for a top up, and they say there is no change to your PIA from your top up, if the PIA amount remains the same, (100% of what you were receiving) why use it in the formula ? It has to change if it is used in a reduction calculation, the Idea is to get 70% of your income, if the PIA remains at 100%, it should not be included in the calculations. ( I could very well be wrong, I'm by far no expert, just fooling with numbers is all)

Another thing that I'm looking at is remember a top up in the RISB means making up a difference to arrive at a set minimum, so I ask myself this, if a formula say's a reduction of 30% from the PIA, and the original 100% of the  PIA remains unchanged, where do we get the difference from ?

One could say that the 30% reduction in the PIA is for calculating purposes only, I'm ok with that if no top up is required, but if a top up is made, how can one say that there would be no change to the PIA amount when it was reduced to determine the top up.

There are other income factors that come into play when calculating for a top up, I think if they say the PIA does not change, they should not reduce it in the calculations, if they say it remains at 100% of what we were receiving, it should be calculated at 100% when doing the calculations.

Just my opinion, I am sure I will be proven wrong, but is that not a good thing ? We are here to discuss and learn, and the more we learn about our benefits, the better will be.

Oh your a good man there 6608, very much appreciated my friend !

I beleive the PIA is for life and the PIA supplement stops at age 65