Here's a reality check reminder on what direction Veterans Advocate groups should take

That explains it Rex, thanks for the info.

Steelgunner, I can understand your point, and if Super had apologized for his comments, then that would have been the end of it. But he basically admitted that he was a past member, and his only purpose for posting was to stir up and agitate other veterans. There is a fine line between allowing freedom of speech, and enforcing the rules of the forums, that Trooper and I must walk everyday, but when someone intentionally breaks the rules, we are forced to take action. We have no control over the Goc, and only the courts can force the Government to follow the rules, but if JT himself came on this site and identified himself, he would be subject to the same forum rules as you and I, and would be removed if he refused to adhere to them.

As far as Lawnboy is concerned, although I did not personally agree with his interpretation of the case law that he quoted, it was explained to him that since we are not lawyers or legal experts, arguing the legalities of his argument on the site was not going to further his lawsuit. He is still more than welcome to post his concerns and questions.

well the GOC has its way of doing things for sure . behind closed doors in small controlled groups with limits on what can be discussed and how it will be discussed . of course this doesn't include open and honest debate . anyone see someone outside the GOC trying to control vets in this manner ?

ALWAYS question authority

propat

Well guess super was getting out of hand and I miss lawnboys daily rattle which I did not like at first but see his point.

No need to read the riot act to me.  

Rules are rules.  Remember the GOC is not playing with the rules when they deal with us Veterans.


All of you have a good day!!!!! Cheer up!!!

Steelgunner,

You should have a look at each category of this forum, under each category heading you will see where it gives an explanation of what is in that category. In this particular case, look under the category, "Stored Topics" you will see this, "View older CSAT topics, unpopular topics and topics that were edited/moved by the administrators."

As far as freedom of speech goes, this has absolutely nothing to do with freedom of speech, it has everything to do with keeping the forum on track, something that myself and Rex are detailed to do.

If you got a problem with that Steelgunner, send myself or Bigrex a PM, we will be more than happy to answer any questions you may have.

It's also a good Idea to read the forum rules, everything you asked is clearly stated in those rules.

Where the Internet census police here?

If, so, could you not put up the reason or say the thread has been alter.  Instead of myself searching around and looking for the correct thread that was vanished/edited.  

I believe in the right to voice your opinion and say your point.  Freedom of speech -- many have died for this reason.

Anyone in the Vancouver area want to meet up for a protest at a concurrent time as the one in Ottawa?

well pinger a political org would be perfect in my opinion and I mean a proper one . it brings all groops under one umbrella . it would have resources the various groups could use . these types of organizations are used by all sizable unions and many other special interests as well . the military cant have a union right now but if they had a political org they would be able to fight for one . we could never unite the vets orgs in my opinion but a political org can bring them under one umbrella and work with them all kind of like a mediator with helpful resources . yes a political org would be something that would follow the forming of a union or uniting the vets orgs into one but I'm suggesting putting the cart before the horse given the situation .

propat

I believe this thread isn't as active because of people not knowing where or how to contribute. I have been following it closely, yet do not know how to contribute.

I think this is a really great fracking thread.

Carpet bombing the media will not effect the media's already bought though.

If it's a flash bang thing with mileage, that's better and I'm absolutely in.
Because frankly, I'm getting tired of pxxxing in the wind.

The really hard part to me is organizing the "one veteran"

I'm talking about consolidating EVERYONE for a primary.
But don't think it can be done... never been done really.

I mean really, how in blazes can you get sooo many advocacy groups
to agree on one thing, let alone two?

I'm open to suggestions . . .

Here's a step by step, explain to the whole Country the implementation of the 15% increase to the ELB, inform them about the lowering of Basic corporal to senior private, something that was not mentioned in the promise, the promise was to increase the ELB by 15% period. Explain to them why it is that we have to wait a year before getting the supplementary payment with respect to the DA increase, and why it is that Veterans are not given a clearer explanation as to how they will calculate those supplementary payments. Explain to them why the re opening of the offices were made a priority when Veterans were asking for the lifelong pension on a daily basis. Was the offices made a priority to create jobs? Explain to them why is it that our Minister is all over the map talking about everything but Veteran issues. Why is it that the advisory group committee is not being transparent when the Liberals campaign on transparency? Do they have something to hide? Why is it when Veterans take the time to ask questions on our Ministers Facebook page, he does not answer? Why is it that the Liberals said they would not fight Veterans in court and that is exactly what their doing? Why is it that the Liberals are almost into their first full year of power and nothing has been said or done about the number one promise that Veterans have been waiting and hoping for, the lifelong pension?

On a side note, there does not seem to be much interest on this particular topic, which is fine, we don't want to be pushing our thoughts down peoples throat.

oh I here ya trooper the systems are complicated to understand for us so we really need to simplify the message a lot for civvies to understand . as for the Halifax thing that was a small pop up side issue . just something that happens you don't see coming that got dealt with immediately and properly .

the family did a bang up job very intelligently they went straight out after public opinion .first on social media then news print then it was picked up by TV news and they were off to the races letters from the general public were poring in to politicians then the another follow up on the news then a protest and a news follow up on that with even more letters being sent to politicians hell even the legion got flooded with mail on the subject .

step by step covering all the bases in order but an easy to understand message .

dealing with all the problems with the PA and NVC far more complicated and harder to understand to the general public . picking one or two issues and simplifying them in to short slogans or talking points if you will would be a must for the general public for the message would be highly recommended .

propat

Propat I agree, consistency is key. The media needs to clearly understand exactly what we are protesting, the media relays the protest message to the Country, if the protest message is mixed or not fully understood, the protest will not be as effective. Also as I stated above Veterans need to be united in their protest message. As it stands now with all the different benefits that comes from the NVC, the mixture of benefits that really categorizes Veterans in a way that can be hard to comprehend, and complicated to navigate, the agendas are mixed within the Veteran community. That's why we need more Veterans to recognize the BS that's coming from this government, we need more Veterans to understand that the more you sit with the government, the more it's feeding the governments PR system. Unity and understanding change is also key, without it, we are simply left with divisions within the ranks. You can see this happening now with all the different agendas, different outlooks as to how we proceed forward. The last protest held in Halifax is a real good example that shows just how effective protest can be. Protest can have a huge positive impact on our file if done properly, and done with unity among the Veteran community.

protests a must as part of the solution union yup a must said this before but never really believed in one for the military until 2006 so this is also a must . bottom line we do need a political organization with proper lobbyists , money men and PR guys to organize a coherent effective effort .

its just politics 101 guys public opinion drives government policy . if we intend to change government policy we will likely need public opinion with us not just vet opinion.

got to use EVERY tool in the tool box to get this political orgs and their lobbyist's have been doing this effectively for many years . proper use of media ALL media is a MUST to get out a single message or set of messages out ones that are simple and eye catching that WILL garner public support to the extent the general public will make their feelings known to the government .

the messages must be consistent across the country over time . seriously different protests for different reasons isn't as effective as effective as protests for the same reason with the exact same massage . if you are not willing to properly use the media in conjunction with protests then what's the point ?

propat

It can be a two prong attack, I like your ideas and the first one is a must.  

Protest are hard to get going.  But a small start can develop into a huge protest.  Not just one day, as many as it takes.  We need serving members, veterans , family , and public to join in time.  As I said before we should model them after how the Native people organized to bring the government to the table with a lot strength behind them.

I have contacted a reporter to view my thoughts and put myself in a public situation.  We will see if he answers me and decides to report on this very important topic.  It's just not one topic, it's about all of us serving, non serving, injured, non injured, Reg Force, Res Force.