QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS - PENSION FOR LIFE UPDATE

So I had e-mailed my concerns and some of the concerns that were brought forward in this thread to the e-mail address that allowed questions or concerns within 30 days of the PFL policy coming out. I got an auto response saying thanks for the feedback but no questions will be answered however that changed as I got a reply today. Hopefully this helps clear some of the confusion up for some.


Thank you for your review and comments on the proposed regulatory amendments to support the Pension for Life benefit package. I hope the additional information below helps to answer your questions.



No Veterans in receipt of the CIA Supplement will receive less than this amount. the amount(s) of Earnings Loss Benefit, Retirement Income Security Benefit, and Career Impact Allowance Supplement a veteran is eligible for before offsets, prior to the implementation of the Income Replacement Benefit are being protected on the coming into force, and will be annually indexed.



With respect to grade levels, individuals who are in receipt of CIA before April 1, 2019 will automatically transition into APSC at the same grade level they were receiving for CIA. For this group, they will remain at this deemed grade level, even if they should have been reassessed at a lower grade due to earnings capacity impacts no longer being considered under the APSC. In other words, the grade level for this group will be protected for as long as the Veteran continues to receive the benefit. While the concept of "grade level" will not appear in legislation, this protection is nonetheless set out in the transitional provisions relating to the APSC in Bill C-74 as subsection 133(4). Note that while the grade level for these Veterans will never be decreased, they will still have the right to a higher grade level if their condition worsens.

I hope this information helps to clarify some of your concerns.



Respectfully,
Director, Cabinet Business Unit
Veterans Affairs Canada

ya you are correct about the EELB and CIAS not falling however IRB amounts surly can increase by more than just the indexing as I suspect they will during close election cycles . I do not see any bump ever to the CIAS ELB and CIA amounts ever again outside indexing .

still buds if IRB never increases then you still keep what you have so no biggie .

if it does increase to the point its more than what you are getting well you then get that higher amount again no biggie .

this part looks good ( but keep being sceptical as I will ) RIGHT NOW .

propat

Personally, I do not see how it could ever be less. If you get EELB, which equals 90% of pre-release pay, (minimum of $3600) and CIAS which is $1120/mo, for a total of $4720, and both are guaranteed until age 65, or life, how could they ever be reduced below the IRB amount, since the IRB and ELB amounts are the same? So until someone at VAC, and not a politician, says that we will be able to collect full CIAS, and full IRB benefit, without them conflicting with each other, I will remain skeptical.

bigrex well the wording isn't exactly clear but I don't read it that way . just the way I read it . your ELB,CIA and CIAS will be protected until they are equal to or less than your IRB calculations .

EG; your benefits today $200.00

IRB calcs ; $100.00

your $200.00 will be protected and indexed until such a time that they are equal to or less than the $100.00 IRB indexed .

or in better terminology your amount will be protected until such a time that current IRB calculations would lead to an equal or increased benefit .

obviously if all stays the same it will likely not happen to most but in this rapidly changing shell game of ABC benefits appearing , disappearing , increasing and decreasing ya never know what tomorrow will bring .

bottom line the way I see it I keep the amount I get today until it is equal to or less than the IRB amount then at that time I will get the IRB amount .

clear as mud???

propat

I recently heard that a Pension for Life Calculator will be appearing soon on the VAC webpage providing a "ballpark estimate" for eligible veterans. Has anyone else heard this news?

Rubicon

Others on FB have been pointing that out as well. It seems as they release these regulations they are going back on what they have said at Town Halls. At the bottom there's a note that says you can e-mail the with concerns or questions looks like it's time to do that but only have 30 days from date of publication.

I'm having some serious concerns, because of this line.

"Veterans, survivors and orphans who are receiving ELB, RISB, and/or the CIAS on March 31, 2019, will have these amounts protected and indexed annually, until equal to or less than the IRB amount payable."

Does that mean if you're getting EELB and CIAS, those amounts will be protected, as long as they only equal the 90% IRB amount? If that is true, it makes no sense whatsoever, since the ELB alone, equals the 90%.

Has anyone had a chance to read through this?
http://www.gazette.gc.ca/rp-pr/p1/2018/2018-06-02/html/notice-avis-eng.html#nb1

There are some major concerns in there such as I don't see it saying anything about grandfathering CIAS. Also those who have CIA but we're bumped up a grade due to time served could end up being knocked backed down. Yes your grade is protected on coming into force but VAC can ask for a reassessment and new requirements have no time served criteria this bumping those back down a level. It seems there are ton of restrictions in place and will be difficult getting any of these benefits for most of you don't already have them.

Hey Teager

The answer to your question is Yes.

If your Dollar value is say computed to $300 a month and they figure total for lifetime of the PFL
total will be say $90,000

they will give you the option to keep taking the monthly, and or take the $90K as a lump sum and it'll still be tax free.

If you take monthly and you die at say 75, then they'll calculate the remaining amount and it'll be released to
your next of kin, or estate. Your next of kin/wife whichever wont be able to carry on the monthly amount.

Here's some posting about it.. http://www.cbc.ca/news/opinion/pension-for-life-1.4468956
Para 8

"The April 2019 programs play a similar shell game with the customary excessive rhetoric. Under a new "holistic package," injured veterans will be given a choice between the current lump sum to compensate for pain and suffering, which pays up to a maximum of $360,000, or a tax-free monthly payment of up to $1150. "

http://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/services/pension-for-life
7/8th of the page down to the right of where the FAQ starts

"The Pain and Suffering Compensation is designed to recognize and compensate CAF members and Veterans for the pain and suffering they experience due to a disability caused by a service-related illness and/or injury. It is not intended to replace income, which is why the PSC is not taxable.

Based on the member or Veteran's assessed extent of disability, the PSC benefit potentially entitles Veterans up to a maximum of $1,150 a month for life. Veterans and members can also opt to cash out their payments at any time. The intent is to provide the choice of how to receive this benefit, while encouraging recipients to continue the monthly payment.

ya interesting question bigrex but when ya could do better investing that money instead of paying back into the system I'm not sure how many will ask to go that route anyway .

propat

Basically, what is happening, is that we are having to pay back the previous Lump sum Awards, except they are clawing it back, over your expected lifetime, instead of a fixed time period like ten years. What will be interesting to see, is what will happen once NVC veterans start hitting that 84 year old mark, and the LSA are fully paid off. Are they going to start getting an unreduced pension? If so, it would also be interesting to see if they give veterans the opportunity to pay it back at an accelerated rate, or make additional payments on it, like a car loan, allowing the Veteran to pay it off that much faster.

For example, if they say they are going to reduce your PFL by $200/mo, for the next 40 years, to pay back $96000. Could you request that they deduct $300/Mo, so the debt would be paid off in only 26 years, and then you could start collecting the full monthly pension?

Something I haven't seen asked or answered is if someone who already received the DA and is then entitled to let's say $300 a month for life, Whatever the difference maybe that VAC calculates can you still take that as a lump sum or are those that took the DA simply going to get the reduced pension amount for life?

Your welcome..

the one reason they take back or clawback that overage one received from the extended calculation
is otherwise, they'd be going okay you now have a $129679 over payment, but by using it to reduce
the total from the time you turn 84, your still paying it, cause as you see your $690 from a 60% disability
you now only get $329 or $412 a month, so it is reduced.

So what happens if ya die before 84, well as they said, if your monthly then they'll calculate the remaining
amount, and it'll be paid to your estate, or next of kin as a lump sum.

So is the $329 all you get, well maybe maybe not depending on your situation, if you have CIA then you'll also get your CIA lvl as well, so your 100% you'll get the $880 PFL, $1500 APFL, if you also get the CIA supplement, you'll get that as well, just don't know were or how they will include it, and or if it'll be non-taxable or taxable but I guess you'll get that as well.

will have to wait till we get closer to April's date to get more confirmed information on where $$$ are gonna go under

Thanks Binrat great break down . This explains it much better

So using your Year's vet, and amounts see if I can figure it out.. for 2010/12/14 and basing 20% shouldn't be to bad.

so in 2010 your received award amount of 20% should of been $63929.86
Since I dont know which month it was given in so say June.
From June 2010 till April 2019 we have 106 months x $230.00 = $24380
So we take that and subtract ir from the $63K we get $39549.86 over

Now 2nd in 2012
so June again I can remove 24 months from 106 we get 82 months $66902.15
so 82 months x $230 = $18860 - $66902.15 we get $4804215

3rd in 2014
so now 58 months x $230 = $13340 Award $68767.45 now $55427.45

So now lets add them together
1st amount received = $186259.46 total in awards
Under PFL received $56580

$129679.46 OVER

So from April 2019 to 84 years old so40 years or 468 months @60% or $690
we get $322920 now subtract the over amount $129679.46 now remains $193241
we look at dividing that by remaining months.. of 468 will give you
an monthly pension of $412.90

Now as I have shown this is for someone who is 32 year's old how will it change
if you are older

Now I looked at someone who is 54 the earlier amounts don't change.
so we have 54 year old, so 30 year's or 360 months x $690 is $248400
Subtract our overage we have $118720.54
and divide 360 months or 30 years. we now get $329.77 a month


now I thought maybe try the other way of doing it and I get same answer
2010 @$230 a month, 2010 x 24 months gets $5520
2012 @$460 a month x 24 months to 2014 you get $11040
now 2014 @ $690 a month till April 2019 58 months $40020
and add them up you still get $56580 - $186259 you received in Awards total
$129679 more in DA then monthly payments

going forward you have 30 year's 360 months x $690 $248400
then - your overage ($129679)per say $118721
and divide that by 360 months $329 amonths