Re: Diminished Earning Capacity (DEC)

by jimmyB1 Sat 23 Mar 2019, 07:52

Bruce72 wrote:DEC is not a fucking reward. It's the last resort. It's calling artillery down on your position.

Thanks Bruce. No one informed me of this, not VAC, not my CM, I couldn't even make sense of the policy.

by Guest Thu 21 Mar 2019, 18:17

DEC is not a fucking reward. It's the last resort. It's calling artillery down on your position.

by Guest Thu 21 Mar 2019, 18:09

I spent the last 10 years jumping through hoops.

It took 10 fucking years of therapy and me tearing a path across this planet to be deemed DEC.

You guys would not believe the shit VAC put me through.

And you would'nt believe the shit I've been up to.

All I want is control of my life. And I will wrestle it away from anyone

by Guest Thu 21 Mar 2019, 18:01

jimmyB1 wrote:Hi everyone and thank you for all the advice. I don't post here often but I think I speak for many veterans who aren't active in posting here; We all really appreciate the advice and guidance of this forum. Here is my question:
I have been on ELB and rehab program for well over a year now. I applied for DEC early last year and my then case manager just wrote back and told me in no uncertain terms "not a chance". I didn't even know about internal reviews etc. So I read this forum and I start to educate myself and see that indeed VAC is not out to support the veteran but it is more of an adversarial system where the veteran is the one responsible for his/her own health. I spent most of the last year thinking that VAC was 110% in my corner. Then I realize there are a lot of benefits I feel I certainly qualify for and I have been denied (Caregiver for my wife, VIP, DEC - maybe there is more).
I only have PTSD right now althought I have sleep apnea, restless legs and IBS pending. (IBS is at 26 weeks, when I submitted it in September 2018 the wait time was 16 weeks now it's 42 almost a year?!) Sleep apnea is at stage 2 although my DR sent in the forms/sleep study etc and now I am trying to figure out how to go about getting these damn restless legs diagnosed.
So PTSD and 3 conditions that have a huge impact on my life. I have been going to therapy every week for over a year now. Tons of EMDR. I am signing up for mindfulness workshops and reaching out to soldier on for courses and hiking trips etc. I am only now, a year into recovery, just realizing how long of a road I have ahead of me until I can gain some stability and confidence managing this injury.
I applied again to my new case manager for DEC and was again denied saying there was no evidence on my file that says I am unable to work. Well how could there be any evidence all I have been doing is going to EMDR every week. No one asks me to see any occupational therapist. No tests, nothing. Does VAC want me to go find some occupational therapist who will tell them I am in no shape to work? Is it because VAC thinks I may be able to work one day years down the road?
It seems with the changes coming April 1 VAC is really hitting the brakes on everything. Now if I get DEC after April 1st I'll be missing out on a bunch of financial benefits won't I? What else can I do but write my case manager back and demand DEC get taken to the local level for decision rather then just the discretion of a case worker? I can't appeal a message I got through VAC secure messaging, can I?
Thanks again for reading and I really appreciate any insight.
JimmyB1

I don’t want to trigger you but you will find 2 things in this forum, # 1 a ton of useful information that you may never hear from VAC/CM and # 2 that some vets end up with an “awesome” CM , while others seem to have a slacker CM. I myself find it hard not to get upset sometimes when I read about the journey of some compared to my own, but I guess at th end of the day you have to take everything with a grain of salt. For instance I spoke with one vet who told me that his CM informed him that VAC has never granted a claim for IB S on its own, unless the symptoms could be linked to say PTSD, is that true who knows.? I ve been having my own battle with my CM over DEC and like yourself I wonder if all this resistance would be happening if the date that The extra benefit of CIAS ( related to having a DEC), wasn’t disappearing April 1. Even if you went to an occupational therapist on your own, VAC probably wouldn’t recognize the outcome as they work with March of Dimes. I guess the easy thing would have been for your CM to set you up with the testing, to keep calm waters, but it’s all about saving the gov. money. It’s a two edged sword, because I read here of vets who have tried and failed at vocational training and various jobs before VAC recognizes their Diminished Earning Capacity, and yet if you read the literature, a vet can be placed directly on DEC is VAC sees it as a waste of time to put a vet through programs. I don’t know if that’s based solely on extend of injuries, age , ptsd severity or what. The ombudsman doesn’t tend to get involved until after you’ve lost an appeal, but what do you have to los3 my contacting the office. Either way, with less than 2 weeks before , April 1, you’ll probably not get a straight answer from your CM, or hear back from the ombudsman before then. I’d be interested to hear if the attitude of your CM changes in April, I.e. they agree to send you to an O T, after all they will have saved the Gov. and extra $1400 a month by then.

by **bigrex** Thu 21 Mar 2019, 09:53

Jimmy, the problem is that you are still undergoing pretty intensive treatment, and therefor your PTSD has not stabilized. So nobody, including a psychiatrist, would be able to honestly say that you will not be able to return to work, once your treatment is completed. it sucks, because of the timing, but you can't rush the process. Most of the guys with PTSD, that were eventually deemed DEC, underwent the treatment, and tried working, on and off, for years, before it was recognized that working just wasn't in the cards for them.

by Zodiac Thu 21 Mar 2019, 08:18

Here is my suggestion, call the Veterans Ombudsman. Explain to them what has transpired. They should be able to assist. Case Managers and their supervisors do not like to hear from that office.

by jimmyB1 Thu 21 Mar 2019, 07:40

Hi everyone and thank you for all the advice. I don't post here often but I think I speak for many veterans who aren't active in posting here; We all really appreciate the advice and guidance of this forum. Here is my question:
I have been on ELB and rehab program for well over a year now. I applied for DEC early last year and my then case manager just wrote back and told me in no uncertain terms "not a chance". I didn't even know about internal reviews etc. So I read this forum and I start to educate myself and see that indeed VAC is not out to support the veteran but it is more of an adversarial system where the veteran is the one responsible for his/her own health. I spent most of the last year thinking that VAC was 110% in my corner. Then I realize there are a lot of benefits I feel I certainly qualify for and I have been denied (Caregiver for my wife, VIP, DEC - maybe there is more).
I only have PTSD right now althought I have sleep apnea, restless legs and IBS pending. (IBS is at 26 weeks, when I submitted it in September 2018 the wait time was 16 weeks now it's 42 almost a year?!) Sleep apnea is at stage 2 although my DR sent in the forms/sleep study etc and now I am trying to figure out how to go about getting these damn restless legs diagnosed.
So PTSD and 3 conditions that have a huge impact on my life. I have been going to therapy every week for over a year now. Tons of EMDR. I am signing up for mindfulness workshops and reaching out to soldier on for courses and hiking trips etc. I am only now, a year into recovery, just realizing how long of a road I have ahead of me until I can gain some stability and confidence managing this injury.
I applied again to my new case manager for DEC and was again denied saying there was no evidence on my file that says I am unable to work. Well how could there be any evidence all I have been doing is going to EMDR every week. No one asks me to see any occupational therapist. No tests, nothing. Does VAC want me to go find some occupational therapist who will tell them I am in no shape to work? Is it because VAC thinks I may be able to work one day years down the road?
It seems with the changes coming April 1 VAC is really hitting the brakes on everything. Now if I get DEC after April 1st I'll be missing out on a bunch of financial benefits won't I? What else can I do but write my case manager back and demand DEC get taken to the local level for decision rather then just the discretion of a case worker? I can't appeal a message I got through VAC secure messaging, can I?
Thanks again for reading and I really appreciate any insight.
JimmyB1

by Guest Mon 18 Mar 2019, 01:04

bigrex wrote:Unfortunately, I don't believe DEC is something that can be backdated. You either have it or you don't. So that means, that if you do end up getting deemed DEC in June, it will be too late for the CIAS. But if your CM was truly bragging about getting your DEC denied, I would be forwarding that message onto the Ombudsmen, and your MP, because Veterans need to be able rely on their CM, to be their advocate. So if your CM was acting in bad faith, that should be a fireable offence.

yeah, they are locking down the site for a few days and it says you’ll be only able to look at your last 15 messages or something like that, so I took a screen shot of it, in case when the site comes fully back on line in April that half my messages are wiped clean. Honestly the Cm message came in so late on a Friday, I thought maybe the Cm was drunk or something to gloat the way they did. I already contacted the ombudsman,the head of Legion Command and a civi lawyer org. That takes on veteran cases. But the appeal itself goes before a group in Halifax, to look at all the information, but I really don’t know how long they take to come to a conclusion.even if it was to be in my favour I doubt it will be 8n the next 12 days.

by **bigrex** Mon 18 Mar 2019, 00:47

Unfortunately, I don't believe DEC is something that can be backdated. You either have it or you don't. So that means, that if you do end up getting deemed DEC in June, it will be too late for the CIAS. But if your CM was truly bragging about getting your DEC denied, I would be forwarding that message onto the Ombudsmen, and your MP, because Veterans need to be able rely on their CM, to be their advocate. So if your CM was acting in bad faith, that should be a fireable offence.

by Guest Sun 17 Mar 2019, 20:34

Newfie wrote:Sleeping dog
From what I was told by CM when I applied for DEC was that CM would gather all relevant info needed to support for DEC and advocate for me to a board. Mine was held on a wed and my CM called me that same day with a favourable result. Now if you got a CM who does not advocate for you getting DEC then the CM could voice concerns at the board so that the DEC is denied even though you should be deemed DEC

wow, I thought your CM was supposed to be in your corner no matter what, pose all relevant dr. Reports and then let the IDT make the decision. I guess if you CM doesnt have your back, you're screwed. I appealed anyway, but if a board later ruled in my favor by say June, if the original board was in Feb. Will they back date the decision to Feb. And say I'm entitled to CIAS ot say sorry you are now DEC but CIAS ended April 1, you are SOL

by Newfie Sun 17 Mar 2019, 20:10

Sleeping dog
From what I was told by CM when I applied for DEC was that CM would gather all relevant info needed to support for DEC and advocate for me to a board. Mine was held on a wed and my CM called me that same day with a favourable result. Now if you got a CM who does not advocate for you getting DEC then the CM could voice concerns at the board so that the DEC is denied even though you should be deemed DEC

by Zodiac Sun 17 Mar 2019, 19:38

Your Case Manager could not over rule the manager. After 1 Apr you will be able to appeal and still get the benefits. This is what I understand. Can anyone else chime in?

by Guest Sun 17 Mar 2019, 19:06

Zodiac wrote:They are correct, your Case Manager and his/her peers and Manager at your local office make the decision. On April 1st, its done by another organization within VAC.

yes, but can a CM overrule the decision of the IDT or vice versa if they are not on the same page.

by Zodiac Sun 17 Mar 2019, 18:55

They are correct, your Case Manager and his/her peers and Manager at your local office make the decision. On April 1st, its done by another organization within VAC.

by Guest Sun 17 Mar 2019, 18:23

bigrex wrote:The Veteran has never been involved in the process, I believe you are mistaking it with the review hearing with VRAB, where the Veteran is in attendance, and can speak directly to, and answer questions from board members. The DEC board, on the other hand, is currently conducted by VAC employees at your local VAC office, including your CM, who go over all the reports available, to make a decision. ideally, your CM would act as your advocate, but if they are the kind of person who would berate their client, like you described last night, I do not feel that was likely the case, and could be the reason your DEC was denied. But soon, all those same reports, are going to be shipped to some office, and some faceless bureaucrats will decide if the reports, are adequate to support a DEC determination, or not. This effectively takes your greatest advocate, or your greatest opponent, out of the equation.

no, I know about the VRAB process because I’m having one next week over the phone, but I’m just wondering who really has the final say in a DEC designation, because in that late message I got from my CM , they seemed to be gloating about the fact that they had a direct hand in it being denied.

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