Re: Career Impact Allowance (CIA)

by czerv Wed 03 Jul 2019, 09:12

Not sure why message posted itself two times?

by czerv Wed 03 Jul 2019, 09:11

I had 3 CMs. Two useless. If she/he is a social worker, report her to their SW board (or whatever is the name of that ). Request (freedom of info act) if there were any complaints against that person.
I applied for everything that there was (without the encouragement nor any info from my 2 useless CMs) and got everything I applied for.
If they do not fire them (doubt it) they will be screw.... more veterans under their 'I am overworked' scheme. Shame on them. How can they sleep at night?

by **Iceman** Wed 03 Jul 2019, 01:55

By the Bay wrote:
This really pisses me off.... A good CM would have told Iceman that he might be entitled to CIA/CIAS and apply on his behalf...
but no, again another Veteran has missed out on applying for an entitled benefit because he didn't think he was entitled to it...A veteran shouldn't have to research policies to verify if he or she is entitled to certain benefits....its the job of CMs to make sure every veteran receives ALL their entitled benefits.

I really hate this system!

By the Bay

I had a CM (a good one I think). He gave me direct email address etc and was very responsive.
I hadn’t needed assistance for a few months, and emailed him to touch base.
He explained that his case load was double what it should have been, and with new CM’s on staff, my file got transferred to someone else.

Emailed to touch base.. crickets.
A month or 2 later, again... crickets.
Not really something you should do, ignore a client with PTSD

A few months later I really needed help, called in to get in touch with her, and found out my file had been moved to the general pool.
Never ever heard a word from her.

Since then, entirely on my own, except information I get from here, and my PTSD muddled interpretation of things.

by By the Bay Wed 03 Jul 2019, 00:14

Iceman wrote:
bigrex wrote:Iceman, we realize that they have removed the time in, and lost employment opportunities out of the grade determination, but that is supposed to be only for application that were submitted AFTER April 1st. So applications that were submitted before April, are supposed to compare the the level of impairment criteria, AND the old time served calculations, when deciding which grade the Veteran would receive.

Personally, I think that the time in criteria, was removed, because someone realized that it was poorly thought out, and poorly implemented, and would eventually be challenged in court. And because it's no longer tied to the loss of your career, the CIA title no longer made sense. But if they just renamed it back to the PIA, it would be admitting that they had screwed up. So in comes the APSC, as a "new" benefit, even though it uses the same old PIA eligibility criteria, used from 2006-2017

this is where i messed up....
the way i read things, career impact allowance etc.... i did not think i would qualify, so did not bother.

Affter april 1, i saw the banner on myVac regarding APSC etc and that you may qualify blah, blah, so looked at it closer... and submitted a claim for APSC

This really pisses me off.... A good CM would have told Iceman that he might be entitled to CIA/CIAS and apply on his behalf...
but no, again another Veteran has missed out on applying for an entitled benefit because he didn't think he was entitled to it...A veteran shouldn't have to research policies to verify if he or she is entitled to certain benefits....its the job of CMs to make sure every veteran receives ALL their entitled benefits.

I really hate this system!

By the Bay

by pinger Tue 02 Jul 2019, 23:45

Hello iceman

You submitted a claim for post April APSC ?
So many variables.
Wish you fairest winds but they may take 6 - 9 months.
IMO?.
But the Policy Documents are always interesting Very Happy

Helping all of us

by **Iceman** Fri 28 Jun 2019, 10:19

bigrex wrote:Iceman, we realize that they have removed the time in, and lost employment opportunities out of the grade determination, but that is supposed to be only for application that were submitted AFTER April 1st. So applications that were submitted before April, are supposed to compare the the level of impairment criteria, AND the old time served calculations, when deciding which grade the Veteran would receive.

Personally, I think that the time in criteria, was removed, because someone realized that it was poorly thought out, and poorly implemented, and would eventually be challenged in court. And because it's no longer tied to the loss of your career, the CIA title no longer made sense. But if they just renamed it back to the PIA, it would be admitting that they had screwed up. So in comes the APSC, as a "new" benefit, even though it uses the same old PIA eligibility criteria, used from 2006-2017

this is where i messed up....
the way i read things, career impact allowance etc.... i did not think i would qualify, so did not bother.

Affter april 1, i saw the banner on myVac regarding APSC etc and that you may qualify blah, blah, so looked at it closer... and submitted a claim for APSC

by **bigrex** Fri 28 Jun 2019, 09:17

Iceman, we realize that they have removed the time in, and lost employment opportunities out of the grade determination, but that is supposed to be only for application that were submitted AFTER April 1st. So applications that were submitted before April, are supposed to compare the the level of impairment criteria, AND the old time served calculations, when deciding which grade the Veteran would receive.

Personally, I think that the time in criteria, was removed, because someone realized that it was poorly thought out, and poorly implemented, and would eventually be challenged in court. And because it's no longer tied to the loss of your career, the CIA title no longer made sense. But if they just renamed it back to the PIA, it would be admitting that they had screwed up. So in comes the APSC, as a "new" benefit, even though it uses the same old PIA eligibility criteria, used from 2006-2017

by Unknown Soldier Thu 27 Jun 2019, 17:12

Iceman wrote:AND, if you read the replacement for CIA, Additional Pain and Suffering Compensation, DEC, time left, age etc has nothing to do with it any more.

A Veteran may receive the APSC if he or she has a service-related disability for which they have already received a Disability Pension, a Disability Award, or a Pain and Suffering Compensation (PSC). In addition, that disability must be causing a permanent and severe impairment which is creating a barrier to re-establishing in life after service. There is no time limit for making an application for the APSC.

https://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/about-vac/legislation-policies/policies/document/2828

Grade 1

Grade 1 is for those with the most severe level of physical, functional and/or mental impairment. To determine that Veterans have this extent of impairment, they must meet at least one of the following criteria:

Functionally, these Veterans:

require long-term hospitalizations;

are institutionalized, or are approaching the need for institutionalization;

require continuous physical assistance of another person with 6 of 7 ADLs as defined in paragraph 32.e.; or

require daily supervision and are not considered safe when left alone.Grade 1 is for those with the most severe level of physical, functional and/or mental impairment. To determine that Veterans have this extent of impairment, they must meet at least one of the following criteria:

OR

Physically, these Veterans include those who have:

quadriplegia;

paraplegia;

bilateral upper extremity amputation (at or above wrist); or

bilateral lower extremity amputation (at or above the ankle).

OR

Mentally, these Veterans:

show obvious signs and behaviour that are influenced by delusions or hallucinations not controlled with treatment and demonstrate gross impairment in communication or judgement i.e., grossly inappropriate, incoherent or mute;or

require total care and supervision in the home or an institutionalized setting.

Grade 2

Grade 2 is for those with a lesser extent of functional, mental and/or physical impairment than those in Grade 1. To determine that Veterans have this extent of impairment, they must meet at least one of the following criteria:

Functionally, these Veterans:

require the physical assistance of another person with 50% or more of the tasks associated with transferring and ambulation (Mobility); or 4 Self-care activities, as set out in paragraph 34;

take an inordinate amount of time to complete transferring and ambulation (Mobility); or 4 Self-care activities, as set out in paragraph 34;

have cumulative effects of limitations in most ADLs, as defined in paragraph 32.e., which when taken together have an equivalent impact on the person as A or B above; or

require daily supervision and are considered safe when left alone for very short periods of time, such as 2 to 3 hours during the day, or 5 to 6 hours overnight.

OR

Physically, these Veterans include those who have:

a complete and permanent loss of vision;

irrecoverable loss of use of an upper and lower limb;

a single upper or lower limb amputation at the hip or shoulder (no viable stump); or

double limb amputations, i.e., at or above the ankle for the lower extremity and at or above the wrist for the involved upper extremity (viable stump).

OR

Mentally, these Veterans include those who:

suffer from a psychiatric condition or neurocognitive disorder with persistent symptoms of extreme impairment of one’s ability to think clearly, respond emotionally, communicate effectively, understand reality, and/or behave appropriately;

suffer from a psychiatric condition or neurocognitive disorder which requires long periods of inpatient hospital care or a combination of inpatient hospital care and outpatient care (greater than 8 weeks, cumulative, within a 6 month period); e.g., a full time day program; or

require recurrent hospitalization, i.e., greater than 3 times per year, without recovery.

Grade 3

Grade 3 is for those with a lesser extent of functional, mental and/or physical impairment than those in Grade 2. All Veterans who meet the APSC eligibility criteria will be eligible for at least Grade 3.The criteria set out below is for illustrative purposes.

Functionally, these Veterans:

require the physical assistance of another person with 50% or more of the tasks associated with transferring or ambulation (Mobility); or 2 Self-Care activities, as set out in paragraph 34;

take an inordinate amount of time to complete transferring or ambulation (Mobility); or 2 Self-care activities, as set out in paragraph 34;

have an inordinate frequency in how often 2 Self-care activities are completed daily;

have cumulative effects of limitations in most ADLs, as defined in paragraph 32.e, which when taken together have an equivalent impact on the person as A, B, or C above; or

require supervision at least three to four times per week for at least one hour per visit to ensure safety in performing activities of daily living, and are considered safe when left alone for longer periods of time.

OR

Physically, these Veterans include those who have:

a total and permanent loss of hearing;

a total and permanent loss of speech;

a single upper extremity amputation at or above the elbow;

a single lower amputation at or above the knee; or

irrecoverable loss of use of a limb.

OR

Mentally, these Veterans include those who have:

a psychiatric condition or neurocognitive disorder for which the Veteran requires ongoing regular treatment, and which results in the Veteran suffering from severe and frequent symptoms (presenting at least once per week) which significantly interfere with functioning in the areas of thought and cognition; emotion, behaviour and coping; and/or activities of daily living.

l talked to a representative of the ombudsman about this and they said, it wouldn’t matter how mentally deranged a veteran was, with out the DEC designation they would never see a CIA level 2 rating, it’s a fault in the system. So even though the policy has all these “Or” conditions, none of them matter to VAC. The example l was given was that a veteran could be so delusional as to attempt murder regarding psychotic beliefs in his head, but still be considered CIA level 1 even though it says “ mental condition, requiring hospitalization “ etc. Because the vet did not complete the process to be found to have a DEC.

by **Iceman** Thu 27 Jun 2019, 15:58

AND, if you read the replacement for CIA, Additional Pain and Suffering Compensation, DEC, time left, age etc has nothing to do with it any more.

A Veteran may receive the APSC if he or she has a service-related disability for which they have already received a Disability Pension, a Disability Award, or a Pain and Suffering Compensation (PSC). In addition, that disability must be causing a permanent and severe impairment which is creating a barrier to re-establishing in life after service. There is no time limit for making an application for the APSC.

https://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/about-vac/legislation-policies/policies/document/2828

Grade 1

Grade 1 is for those with the most severe level of physical, functional and/or mental impairment. To determine that Veterans have this extent of impairment, they must meet at least one of the following criteria:

Functionally, these Veterans:

require long-term hospitalizations;

are institutionalized, or are approaching the need for institutionalization;

require continuous physical assistance of another person with 6 of 7 ADLs as defined in paragraph 32.e.; or

require daily supervision and are not considered safe when left alone.Grade 1 is for those with the most severe level of physical, functional and/or mental impairment. To determine that Veterans have this extent of impairment, they must meet at least one of the following criteria:

OR

Physically, these Veterans include those who have:

quadriplegia;

paraplegia;

bilateral upper extremity amputation (at or above wrist); or

bilateral lower extremity amputation (at or above the ankle).

OR

Mentally, these Veterans:

show obvious signs and behaviour that are influenced by delusions or hallucinations not controlled with treatment and demonstrate gross impairment in communication or judgement i.e., grossly inappropriate, incoherent or mute;or

require total care and supervision in the home or an institutionalized setting.

Grade 2

Grade 2 is for those with a lesser extent of functional, mental and/or physical impairment than those in Grade 1. To determine that Veterans have this extent of impairment, they must meet at least one of the following criteria:

Functionally, these Veterans:

require the physical assistance of another person with 50% or more of the tasks associated with transferring and ambulation (Mobility); or 4 Self-care activities, as set out in paragraph 34;

take an inordinate amount of time to complete transferring and ambulation (Mobility); or 4 Self-care activities, as set out in paragraph 34;

have cumulative effects of limitations in most ADLs, as defined in paragraph 32.e., which when taken together have an equivalent impact on the person as A or B above; or

require daily supervision and are considered safe when left alone for very short periods of time, such as 2 to 3 hours during the day, or 5 to 6 hours overnight.

OR

Physically, these Veterans include those who have:

a complete and permanent loss of vision;

irrecoverable loss of use of an upper and lower limb;

a single upper or lower limb amputation at the hip or shoulder (no viable stump); or

double limb amputations, i.e., at or above the ankle for the lower extremity and at or above the wrist for the involved upper extremity (viable stump).

OR

Mentally, these Veterans include those who:

suffer from a psychiatric condition or neurocognitive disorder with persistent symptoms of extreme impairment of one’s ability to think clearly, respond emotionally, communicate effectively, understand reality, and/or behave appropriately;

suffer from a psychiatric condition or neurocognitive disorder which requires long periods of inpatient hospital care or a combination of inpatient hospital care and outpatient care (greater than 8 weeks, cumulative, within a 6 month period); e.g., a full time day program; or

require recurrent hospitalization, i.e., greater than 3 times per year, without recovery.

Grade 3

Grade 3 is for those with a lesser extent of functional, mental and/or physical impairment than those in Grade 2. All Veterans who meet the APSC eligibility criteria will be eligible for at least Grade 3.The criteria set out below is for illustrative purposes.

Functionally, these Veterans:

require the physical assistance of another person with 50% or more of the tasks associated with transferring or ambulation (Mobility); or 2 Self-Care activities, as set out in paragraph 34;

take an inordinate amount of time to complete transferring or ambulation (Mobility); or 2 Self-care activities, as set out in paragraph 34;

have an inordinate frequency in how often 2 Self-care activities are completed daily;

have cumulative effects of limitations in most ADLs, as defined in paragraph 32.e, which when taken together have an equivalent impact on the person as A, B, or C above; or

require supervision at least three to four times per week for at least one hour per visit to ensure safety in performing activities of daily living, and are considered safe when left alone for longer periods of time.

OR

Physically, these Veterans include those who have:

a total and permanent loss of hearing;

a total and permanent loss of speech;

a single upper extremity amputation at or above the elbow;

a single lower amputation at or above the knee; or

irrecoverable loss of use of a limb.

OR

Mentally, these Veterans include those who have:

a psychiatric condition or neurocognitive disorder for which the Veteran requires ongoing regular treatment, and which results in the Veteran suffering from severe and frequent symptoms (presenting at least once per week) which significantly interfere with functioning in the areas of thought and cognition; emotion, behaviour and coping; and/or activities of daily living.

by **bigrex** Thu 27 Jun 2019, 10:11

Yes, but the CIA, started out as the PIA, Permanent Impairment Allowance,, and had no bearing on the amount of money you could earn, or effect on overall QOL, if any. A person could be working full time, and still be getting grade 1, if they met the criteria. I always use Jody Mitic as an example, because he is the best known. He would be entitled to Grade 1 CIA, because he was a double amputee, but that did not stop him from participating in the Amazing Race Canada, and then starting a career in politics. But someone like me, who joined up when I was 18, served 15 years, but was still forced out of the workforce, when I was 40, because I can't even walk down the hallway without severe pain. But yet my CIA is restricted to only grade two.

by 6608 Wed 26 Jun 2019, 20:54

Bigrex. I understand what your saying below however just to let folks know the CIA percentages are not really for what you have earned at that time of applying for the benefit but what you potentially could have earned, after all most applying for the old CIA didn’t have any earned income coming in at all. The veterans CIA imputed income percentage were calculated by taking the veterans adjusted pre-release salary and comparing that to the potential earning capacity from the Income and Earnings Statistics by Statistics Canada, your potential earning capacity is based on the average employment income for a full year for your age and gender.They then take your QOL rating and factor that in if your QOL rating is 1, then they will use the average employment income from the Statistics Canada table and compare this with your adjusted pre-release military salary. If your QOL rating is 2 they will adjust the average employment income from the Statistics Canada table by 50% and compare this with your adjusted military salary. If your QOL level is 3, your current annual earning potential for the purpose of the CIA assessment will be zero.

Cheers

by **bigrex** Wed 26 Jun 2019, 07:25

Unknown Soldier wrote:
bigrex wrote:basically, the only real time the amount of money you can earn, while DEC, is if you were released before serving 10 years. less than 33.3%, it grade 1, and less than 66.6%, it was grade 2. If you served more than 10 years, or more than 20 years, it didn't matter how much or how little you could earn, could earn, because you were locked into grade 2 or 3 respectively.

But honestly, those criteria never made sense to me. for one thing, it should have been based on your age when deemed DEC, not time served, because someone you joined at 20 years and served 20 years, would only get $500/mo. But someone who joined at 31, and only served 9 years, would get $1500/mo, even though they both completely disabled at age 40, and lost out on 25 years possible future employment.
wow, has anyone ever tried to challenge that in court.?

I'm sure someone would have, eventually. But those criteria were only in effect for a year or two, and people were still trying to figure them out, and how they were applied, when they were redacted.

by **Ppclicaper** Tue 25 Jun 2019, 21:59

another vet tried to explain it to me .. well you get a medical pension after 10 years or regular pension after 20. Didn’t make sense to me either way because IRB eats all pension 1$ for 1$ .. and CIAS /CIA is + IRB .. injury is an injury .. certainly using age and time left in PRL conditions is outdated.. especially level 1 with more serious injuries.

by Unknown Soldier Tue 25 Jun 2019, 21:31

bigrex wrote:basically, the only real time the amount of money you can earn, while DEC, is if you were released before serving 10 years. less than 33.3%, it grade 1, and less than 66.6%, it was grade 2. If you served more than 10 years, or more than 20 years, it didn't matter how much or how little you could earn, could earn, because you were locked into grade 2 or 3 respectively.

But honestly, those criteria never made sense to me. for one thing, it should have been based on your age when deemed DEC, not time served, because someone you joined at 20 years and served 20 years, would only get $500/mo. But someone who joined at 31, and only served 9 years, would get $1500/mo, even though they both completely disabled at age 40, and lost out on 25 years possible future employment.

wow, has anyone ever tried to challenge that in court.?

by pinger Tue 25 Jun 2019, 21:11

Makes a lot of sense to cynical me.
Just the same old dynamic and selective slide rule.
More over since 2006...

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