I will loss over 55% of my retro!!!!! How much will you loss please post here!

backsilver wrote:No the lawyers did not do more work for one than the other, thats why I put it into a general amount.

Stop looking at it like you are getting this much taken away, this is a "Class" therefore the amount the lawyers get paid is the total amount of award x %. Then the remainder is split between the class according to how much of a % of the total you are entitled to.

I understand its not the optimal method of figuring things out but it is a fair way of dealing with it. If you stop looking at how much is being taken away and accept that you are receiving a percentage of what is owed to the whole "Class".

The "Class" is not an individual but a group therefore the group needs to be represented accordingly. The only way to represent a group fairly is by making each person in the group a share holder, which in turn is the % of investment for the transaction.

If a company loses money then each stake holder loses money according to their stake in the company. Same happens when there is a gain, if there is more money awarded than what was original then there will be more money in the pocket of the larger stake holder.

I guarantee you that if the GOC said, "Since we have caused this to happen we are awarding an increase of 30% to each veteran involved with this case". Would people be saying "Oh this is not fair I am getting 30,000 on my 100,000 and that person is getting only 3,000 on their 10,000".

Would there be such heartache if the table was turned, I think not!!

Back

This is ,I believe, the typical way in most cases in the states find their rulings which would make sense to me but hey this is Canada.

Greatfoot wrote:Case A) If you are awarded $10,000 and pay 30%, you pay $3,000.

Case B) If you are awarded $100,000 and pay 30%, you pay $30,000.

Did the lawyers do TEN TIMES the work to get the money for Case B?

This is why I am saying flat rate percentage across the board doesn't work, and also why I am saying flat rate per capita doesn't work.

There needs to be some sort of middle ground found.

No, but did they also win the same amount for everyone, just saying?

Jeffery M, I think reinstating the pension to all those under the NVC should happen yet here is a foreseable problem. If a person got the full lump sum of $280 000 or so then got reinstated to a pension, would the GOC not claw back the $280 000? For instance if you recieved this lump sum 3 years ago under the pension act at 100% pensionable you may be getting approx $3000 a month from VAC. Times 3 years = $108 000 therefor I believe that the GOC would claw back the remainder of$172 000 before you started recieving your pension.
On the other hand what about those Vets who are under the old system and also had claims that were processed under the NVC and got part of a lump sum. These Vets then theoretically should get an increase in their pensions by the % amount they recieved under the NVC. And what about any money oweing since 2006 that they may have recieved if under the pension act.
I am not sure how the GOC and VAC will hammer this one out but all Vets should be treated equally.
I know this is a far stretch but it could be easily solved by granting a pension for everyone under the NVC and not paying back the lump sum. Also all those under the pension act would get a lump sum equivelent to their % disability and continue getting their pensions. Everything would equal out and there would be equality.

i just applied for pia and suppliment thanks to you jeffery and all the other nvc vets for paying for that program by having to take a buyout.if i get it id trade that in a heartbeet so you guys could get your monthly pentions back.
as for that other trade sorry buds but not on your life.

propat

Fantastic logic Backsilver.
And this further demonstrates the 'gap' with the buyout of the NVC.
If all of the individuals within this class action, were under the NVC, your retro would be purely based upon a percentage up to a 'capped' amount.
2 years, or 20 will make no difference to a 'buyout' maximum.

I have received the maximum under the NVC. Who's ready to trade??

Reinstate the Pension for all Veterans.

If our class action with the NVC is not moving in a positive direction, you can trust I will make myself public.

One Veteran. One Standard.

lol i like bigrexes tax idea as well lmao.
propat

well its a moot point as it will be pecentage anyway and if you cant see that the lawyers recovered more for you then the only other way to make the payments equal across the board is to divide all the moneys recovered accross the entire class that way we all recive the same retro hence pay the same fees.but im sure thoes collecting the moast hate that idea more than they hate the idea of not having the guys getting the least to help pay their share of the leagal bills.sheesh talk about steeling from the poor.

propat

And Backsilver, I had suggested using that model as a way to calculated damages. Award everyone a percentage of what was taken from them. Since someone who had $10000 taken over 2 years, although it was wrong, they were not as disadvantaged by the clawback as a Veteran who had $200000 clawback over a decade. So why shouldn't the second Veteran get more in the terms of damages than the first guy

Yes, but greatfoot, even a middle ground would have those that are getting less back, paying more, unless they modeled the fees after the federal tax system.

From CRA website:

15% on the first $42,707 of taxable income, +
22% on the next $42,707 of taxable income (on the portion of taxable income over $42,707 up to $85,414), +
26% on the next $46,992 of taxable income (on the portion of taxable income over $85,414 up to $132,406), +
29% of taxable income over $132,406.

No the lawyers did not do more work for one than the other, thats why I put it into a general amount.

Stop looking at it like you are getting this much taken away, this is a "Class" therefore the amount the lawyers get paid is the total amount of award x %. Then the remainder is split between the class according to how much of a % of the total you are entitled to.

I understand its not the optimal method of figuring things out but it is a fair way of dealing with it. If you stop looking at how much is being taken away and accept that you are receiving a percentage of what is owed to the whole "Class".

The "Class" is not an individual but a group therefore the group needs to be represented accordingly. The only way to represent a group fairly is by making each person in the group a share holder, which in turn is the % of investment for the transaction.

If a company loses money then each stake holder loses money according to their stake in the company. Same happens when there is a gain, if there is more money awarded than what was original then there will be more money in the pocket of the larger stake holder.

I guarantee you that if the GOC said, "Since we have caused this to happen we are awarding an increase of 30% to each veteran involved with this case". Would people be saying "Oh this is not fair I am getting 30,000 on my 100,000 and that person is getting only 3,000 on their 10,000".

Would there be such heartache if the table was turned, I think not!!

Back

Case A) If you are awarded $10,000 and pay 30%, you pay $3,000.

Case B) If you are awarded $100,000 and pay 30%, you pay $30,000.

Did the lawyers do TEN TIMES the work to get the money for Case B?

This is why I am saying flat rate percentage across the board doesn't work, and also why I am saying flat rate per capita doesn't work.

There needs to be some sort of middle ground found.

Break down what ever percentage they come up with across the board. who care if like me receive 30 months retro or 20 years retro just because you pay out a larger amount it does mean you are paying the lawyers more. You have just been ripped off by the GOC longer. For those that have mega bucks coming back to them look at this as the GOC just invested your money for the past whatever years. Because i guarantee most people would still be in the shape there in today. And will be in a few years time after the new cars, trips, new everything most people are a disposable, keep up with the Jones and it pisses me off. We need to get back to the basics. Excluding the Navy and Air Force remember sleeping in a shell scrape wow this sucks, leen too better, wow a recce tent, mod tent hey flooring now were taking. Holy crap Acco trailers who made us kings.
F the money i like to see more done with taking care of our basic medical needs like seeing a VAC Doctor for my injuries or just showing up a sick parade for immediate attn. I never waiting any longer then 6 weeks to see a specialist while serving now i have to wait a years. I bet the hill boys and girls dont wait they have special treatment. I know i am running of topic here but If your listening you are doing a piss poor job of looking after your VETS. OK i have to go back to bed now

Chimo and good morning fellow VETS and VETRESSES

Take the 30 to 50 Million from the Lotto Max Jackpot this Friday. Nobody will miss it and it will benefit all of us. The lawyers get their money, we don't have to pay lawyer fees and the Government does not have to dig into their coffers.
Who the heck knows where that lotto money goes to anyway, might as well use it for some good.

K9, the only problem with your post is the government, even since Harper has taken over has voluntarily paid legal fees for class actions against them, even though they legally did not have to. The Harper government willingly paid 80 million in legal fees to the lawyers in the Residential School lawsuit, on top of the damages awarded to each class member, which was a base amount of $20000 each, plus an additional $90000 (average) if there was abuse, plus if there was any lost wages caused by the abuse (hard to disprove). And none of it was taxable. So a precedent has been set, but the Harper government continues to try to find ways of screwing over disabled Veterans. Even if the judge cannot order the government to cover our legal fees, he can assign them to pay all the court costs and save us thousands each.

I can't believe this is still going on, 8 pages not bad. Are we going for a record? P.S. 30% on the dollar is 30% on the dollar you are not "paying more" as some like to believe. You are paying the same on every dollar that you get whether you are getting $100 or $100000.
What weighs more a ton of feathers or a ton of steel?